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[185.26.156.114]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-691a8e16fc8si322666a12.6.2026.06.11.11.28.57 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 11 Jun 2026 11:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of murch@murch.one designates 185.26.156.114 as permitted sender) client-ip=185.26.156.114; Received: from farbauti.uberspace.de (farbauti.uberspace.de [185.26.156.235]) by mailgate02.uberspace.is (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F11B017F8C8 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2026 20:28:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 31082 invoked by uid 989); 11 Jun 2026 18:28:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO unknown) (::1) by farbauti.uberspace.de (Haraka/3.1.1) with ESMTPSA; Thu, 11 Jun 2026 20:28:56 +0200 Message-ID: <0710406e-e91a-480e-82e4-938d1894f66d@murch.one> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2026 11:28:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [BIP Proposal] Removal of BIP 125 RBF signalling in wallet transactions To: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com References: <212d5db3-7521-4afd-a551-fda8a6ef09c9n@googlegroups.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Murch In-Reply-To: <212d5db3-7521-4afd-a551-fda8a6ef09c9n@googlegroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Bar: -- X-Rspamd-Report: BAYES_HAM(-2.999999) XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01) MIME_GOOD(-0.1) MIME_BASE64_TEXT(0.1) X-Rspamd-Score: -2.989999 X-Original-Sender: murch@murch.one X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@murch.one header.s=uberspace header.b=gU4pBKGs; spf=pass (google.com: domain of murch@murch.one designates 185.26.156.114 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=murch@murch.one Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Hi rkrux and everyone, I don=E2=80=99t have a strong recommendation at this time, but I have a few= =20 thoughts on what should be considered in making the decision: Stopping to signal replaceability makes it sound like it=E2=80=99s a matter= of=20 dropping a fingerprint, but it might be clearer to state that the signal=20 is expressed in the per-input sequence value, and that every sender has=20 to pick a sequence for every input! The most common three settings for the sequence value would presumably=20 be final (MAX), non-final (MAX=E2=88=921), and non-final replaceable (MAX= =E2=88=922).=20 The past usage of BIP125 had caused a trend toward more wallets setting=20 the latter (MAX=E2=88=922). According to Mainnet Observer, currently about = 75%=20 of txs signal replaceability in the 30-day average (see=20 https://mainnet.observer/charts/transactions-signaling-explicit-rbf/).=E2= =80=94Unfortunately,=20 that chart does not distinguish between (MAX) and (MAX=E2=88=921), so I=E2= =80=99m not=20 sure which of those two is more prevalent (probably (MAX)?). Does=20 someone have more data on that? Otherwise, I could throw together a Dune=20 dashboard later. We should try to converge transactions on one common sequence. Signaling=20 finality means that locktimes in the transaction are disabled, so that=20 seems like a poor choice. While `mempoolfullrbf` appears to be fully=20 adopted by the network at this time, there are still some users that use=20 (MAX=E2=88=921) to explicitly convey absence of intent to replace, but that= =20 signal would be ignored by the network for evaluating replaceability and=20 these senders could easily renege on the perceived signal. There are=20 also some wallets that generally still use (MAX) which now also=20 effectively is replaceable. So, the more natural convergence point would=20 perhaps be for everyone to adopt usage of (MAX=E2=88=922), as the emergent= =20 behavior of the network is replaceability and it currently is the most=20 common signal. Cheers, Murch On 2026-06-10 22:43, rkrux wrote:it > Hello list, > > There is an intention in the bitcoin core wallet to remove the > BIP 125 RBF signalling[0] in transactions for which a PR is raised[1]. > The primary reason for its removal is because ever since fullrbf > became the default In bitcoin core nodes in v28.0 two years back, > this signalling has become redundant. > > However, a point[2] was raised in the review of the above PR that > the default input sequence number should be the one that's agreed > by the wide wallet community as a best practice. It would be helpful > if other wallet developers can share if (when) they have plans to > remove this explicit BIP 125 signalling for RBF in transactions. > > It's also an intention[3] to share an informational BIP later that > highlights a recommended input sequence number in transactions. > > Looking forward to replies from wallet developers in the list. > > [0]=C2=A0https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0125.mediawiki > [1] https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/35405 > [2]=C2=A0https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/35405#issuecomment-46344= 69619 > [3]=C2=A0https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/35405#issuecomment-46750= 05759 > > - rkrux > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20 > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send=20 > an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit=20 > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/212d5db3-7521-4afd-a551-fda8= a6ef09c9n%40googlegroups.com=20 > . --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 0710406e-e91a-480e-82e4-938d1894f66d%40murch.one.