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[95.143.172.20]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-65411d7ac98si10340a12.7.2026.01.14.10.58.28 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 14 Jan 2026 10:58:28 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of murch@murch.one designates 95.143.172.20 as permitted sender) client-ip=95.143.172.20; Received: from farbauti.uberspace.de (farbauti.uberspace.de [185.26.156.235]) by mailgate01.uberspace.is (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6598D60E0D for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2026 19:58:28 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 20153 invoked by uid 989); 14 Jan 2026 18:58:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO unkown) (::1) by farbauti.uberspace.de (Haraka/3.0.1) with ESMTPSA; Wed, 14 Jan 2026 19:58:28 +0100 Message-ID: <1dd74f45-bd0a-4fd7-bf80-56a3b2a44128@murch.one> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2026 10:58:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Addressing remaining points on BIP 54 To: Antoine Poinsot , Sjors Provoost Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com References: <05f5b0ee-b487-4733-9860-ac0705b6b901n@googlegroups.com> <9C946151-D6DD-4CB7-B524-15FD9F625D9D@sprovoost.nl> <492f9bba-8a1f-4fa2-8618-98bd564a6178@murch.one> <1B807731-DC2A-4E59-B462-5C210EF1FB73@sprovoost.nl> <_C0iWeaJ-v24dZgcdCnKZKEgK9E493DmpG_-wD1NZnOAuECi97dZpVLuZxkONIfZjTe7km_TWFdSFfmSzVWfJ5Lkz6JTc8JwDOTg9XAInVo=@protonmail.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Murch In-Reply-To: <_C0iWeaJ-v24dZgcdCnKZKEgK9E493DmpG_-wD1NZnOAuECi97dZpVLuZxkONIfZjTe7km_TWFdSFfmSzVWfJ5Lkz6JTc8JwDOTg9XAInVo=@protonmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Bar: --- X-Rspamd-Report: BAYES_HAM(-2.999999) XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01) MIME_GOOD(-0.1) X-Rspamd-Score: -3.089999 X-Original-Sender: murch@murch.one X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@murch.one header.s=uberspace header.b=Q21Ph+yG; spf=pass (google.com: domain of murch@murch.one designates 95.143.172.20 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=murch@murch.one Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Ah right, the Merkle root is calculated based on the stripped=20 transaction, and therefore AJ=E2=80=99s idea works fine. Nevermind, carry o= n! Thanks, Murch On 2026-01-14 07:33, Antoine Poinsot wrote: > Thanks everyone for the comments. > > Sjors, transactions are serialized in modern blocks as described by Murch= . > > Murch, for the purpose of computing the Merkle root transactions are seri= alized without witness data. > > Best, > Antoine > > > > On Wednesday, January 14th, 2026 at 5:23 AM, Sjors Provoost wrote: > >> Hi Murch, >> >> You're referring to the "serialization with witness data" defined in BIP= 141. >> >> But that's not how the transaction is serialised in a block, since the w= itness is >> segregated. >> >>> The witness is committed in a tree that is nested into the block's exis= ting >> merkle root via the coinbase transaction for the purpose of making this = BIP >> soft fork compatible. A future hard fork can place this tree in its own = branch. >> >> As long as the miner doesn't touch the SegWit OP_RETURN , which also com= mits >> to the coinbase witness, it can safely use the legacy transaction serial= isation. >> >> - Sjors >> >> [0] https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0141.mediawiki#trans= action-id >> >>> Op 14 jan 2026, om 01:23 heeft Murch murch@murch.one het volgende gesch= reven: >>> >>> Hi Sjors, >>> >>> On 2026-01-08 00:30, Sjors Provoost wrote: >>> >>>> The approach suggested by Towns [4] of appending a 0-sat OP_RETURN out= put with >>>> padding so a 4-byte nonce lands in the final 64-byte SHA256 chunk is p= robably >>>> better, but not because like nLockTime it has a small hashing midstate >>>> benefit. It's easier to implement. >>>> I can=E2=80=99t access Delving right now to read AJ=E2=80=99s comment,= but a small nit on the idea of using an additional output: BIP=E2=80=AF141= requires coinbase transaction inputs to have a 32-byte witness. Since the = witness section follows the outputs in the serialization, the bytes before = the `nLocktime` in a coinbase transaction are the witness of the coinbase i= nput, not the last output script. >>> -Murch >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoind= ev/1B807731-DC2A-4E59-B462-5C210EF1FB73%40sprovoost.nl. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 1dd74f45-bd0a-4fd7-bf80-56a3b2a44128%40murch.one.