From: Max <maxpaxdownlow@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [BIP Proposal] Reduced Data Temporary Softfork
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:27:10 -0700 (PDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <2774a0b5-fd65-494b-ac23-f3726754eda7n@googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5ddcfb0f-665e-4f0e-987e-80b9bb77ff5bn@googlegroups.com>
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Why don't we just quickly soft fork to disallow large OP_RETURN outputs
(i.e. keep them capped to 80 bytes) only, with forward-looking activation
(no retroactive block invalidation)? This would give the market a clear and
simple way to decide whether such transactions are acceptable or not. It
wouldn't have any of the issues mentioned so far in the discussion like
creating an incentive to put CSAM or other illegal content to attempt a
reorg double spend due to the complex deployment mechanism proposed in
BIP-444 or like putting in jeopardy existing Taproot functionality by
touching other primitives. We don't actually need to remove all the
mechanisms that can be used for embedding data (which has been demonstrated
to be impossible). Rather what we need is to give users the opportunity to
signal whether arbitrary data is welcome or not.
If the legal concerns are compelling enough to warrant consensus changes,
miners should support a clean soft fork immediately. If the market quickly
adopts the new consensus-level OP_RETURN restrictions it would announce
sufficiently clearly to the world that arbitrary data is not welcome and
deter future attempts to bring that to Bitcoin by showing the network's
readiness to resist such efforts. I believe that this PR is too dramatic
and needlessly complicated for what we need: letting the market decide
whether to accept or reject the explicit invitation for arbitrary data
storage that Core v30 has created. Technical changes should be limited to
this question only and simple enough for people to make a decision without
being distracted or overwhelmed by adjacent issues.
On Monday, October 27, 2025 at 10:53:31 AM UTC-6 Jal Toorey wrote:
> "bitcoin is money"
>
> The definition of what is money is extremely subjective. The history of
> it shows this (not the history saifedean paints). Trying to direct the
> development to capture a definition of money opens a huge attack vector.
> It's not different than trying to decide what is spam.
>
> Also what is the difference between the bashers slogan that bitcoin is p2p
> money and "bitcoin is money" They seem like the same thing?
> On Sunday, October 26, 2025 at 3:43:26 PM UTC-7 Peter Todd wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2025 at 08:43:11PM +0000, dathonohm via Bitcoin
>> Development Mailing List wrote:
>> > Hi list -
>> >
>> > Due to Bitcoin Core v30 gaining in popularity, it has become necessary
>> to move forward on [luke-jr's ML proposal](
>> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/2017) to temporarily limit
>> arbitrary data at the consensus level, which so far has 3 weeks with no
>> objections:
>> >
>> > https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/2017
>>
>> Transaction
>> 8e2ee13d2a19951c2777bb3a54f0cb69a2f76dae8baa954cd86149ed1138cb6c
>> contains the full text of this BIP as of writing(1), while simultaneously
>> being
>> compliant with that BIP.
>>
>> Clearly, this approach is ineffective.
>>
>> 1)
>> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/3c718237072c107ced8c3531a487354fbdae55df/bip-%3F%3F%3F%3F.mediawiki
>>
>> --
>> https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
>>
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2025-10-30 2:17 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 30+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2025-10-25 20:43 dathonohm via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-10-26 20:47 ` Jameson Lopp
2025-10-27 4:22 ` dathonohm via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-10-27 12:14 ` Jameson Lopp
2025-10-27 16:35 ` TheWrlck
2025-10-26 22:27 ` Peter Todd
2025-10-27 3:41 ` Jal Toorey
2025-10-27 17:27 ` Max [this message]
2025-10-27 4:08 ` dathonohm via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-10-27 18:29 ` Kyle Stout
2025-10-27 19:56 ` Greg Maxwell
2025-10-28 5:13 ` dathonohm via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-10-30 0:31 ` Antoine Riard
2025-10-30 2:43 ` Erik Aronesty
2025-11-08 0:51 ` dathonohm via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-11-08 3:43 ` Edil Guimarães de Medeiros
2025-11-08 9:30 ` 'Bitcoin Eagle' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-11-08 15:38 ` Greg Maxwell
2025-11-08 16:40 ` Daniel Buchner
2025-11-08 17:55 ` Chris Riley
2025-11-08 21:02 ` dathonohm via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-11-08 21:39 ` Greg Maxwell
2025-11-09 20:07 ` dathonohm via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-11-11 7:43 ` 'Bitcoin Eagle' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-11-11 16:23 ` Greg Maxwell
2025-11-09 1:21 ` Murch
2025-11-09 20:56 ` onyxcoyote
2025-11-09 21:34 ` Peter Todd
2025-11-10 19:46 ` Lucas Barbosa
2025-10-28 9:16 ` /dev /fd0
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