From: Pepe Hodler <pepehodler@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] The Cat, BIP draft discussion.
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2025 17:51:47 -0800 (PST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <46652fac-ca26-4103-8ce4-67356f21adcan@googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAAS2fgR91F1-3HuQ16iVoT9XeyrFXtZ94_t6bWUL0QbLNRVhHw@mail.gmail.com>
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>> The proposed gain is some negligible one time reduction in utxo disk
space.
The current UTXO set contains around 40-50% of dust outputs in spam UTXOs.
The Cat would remove all of them from the UTXO set. I hardly think that's
negligible. And The Cat would further signal to spammers we are no longer
tolerating them on bitcoin, which would further prevent future UTXO bloat.
>> Were such a proposal seriously advanced it would likely cause a new
flood of transactions both to move to evade it directly and as a result of
NFT indexer changes to just "wormhole" the tokens to new outputs after the
fact
Yes indeed, that would not be convenient for spammers, which is the entire
point of The Cat. No one who is not a spammer would suffer.
>> And moreover the proposal would intentionally and knowingly confiscate
millions of dollars in funds.
Only spammy UTXOs with below dust limit sats would be affected. And that
you think it would result in millions of dollars lost to spammers speaks
volume to how bad a problem spam is becoming.
>> This is outright theft, and I believe it makes the idea a total
non-starter.
That is false. They would keep their precious spam intact on chain, they
just would not be able to move it or transfer it to anyone else, which
would severely diminish their profit incentives.
>> No, just the Bitcoin-- but you indirectly make a fine point that it
probably ought to be considered too.
I don't think we should be considering the value or price of this spam. I
don;t care if a jpeg is worth 1 cent or 1$ million, I don't want it on my
bitcoin. If spammers lose any profit, that's the entire point of The Cat.
>> It's fine that you or I agree that NFT crap isn't appropriate to bitcoin
but those harmed aren't beholden to your or my *opinion* and will
absolutely seek redress through any and all means for the damage caused to
them.
If you advocate that we should cater to spammers, and be 'nice' to them,
the problem will only get worth. Let them rage quit.
On Saturday, 13 December 2025 at 08:20:25 UTC-7 Greg Maxwell wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 13, 2025 at 10:05 AM TwoLargePizzas <zar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If the rules don't matter, they won't be bothered if the rules change.
>>
>
> No, that kind of mutual exclusion is often not how things work and isn't
> how they work here. They absolutely will be valued by this proposal
> stealing their bitcoins, but their NFT grifting will not ultimately be
> effected otherwise.
>
> When you say "millions of dollars in funds" are you including the value of
>> the NFTs tied to those sats
>>
>
> No, just the Bitcoin-- but you indirectly make a fine point that it
> probably ought to be considered too. It's fine that you or I agree that
> NFT crap isn't appropriate to bitcoin but those harmed aren't beholden to
> your or my *opinion* and will absolutely seek redress through any and all
> means for the damage caused to them.
>
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2025-12-19 1:49 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 20+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <32f8c689-314d-4a5e-9af6-2e3e704582e6n@googlegroups.com>
[not found] ` <CAAS2fgRR77nZj3-rJo70dnxe8Lma88-C9JqdVTYfXGHRgFu3pA@mail.gmail.com>
2025-12-11 20:54 ` Bitcoin Mechanic
2025-12-12 1:49 ` TwoLargePizzas
2025-12-13 15:02 ` Greg Maxwell
2025-12-14 1:51 ` Pepe Hodler [this message]
2025-12-15 10:35 ` Nona YoBidnes
2025-12-15 16:04 ` Greg Maxwell
2025-12-12 17:13 ` [bitcoindev] " Jonathan Voss
2025-12-12 23:40 ` Greg Maxwell
2025-12-13 3:54 ` Melvin Carvalho
2025-12-13 7:07 ` Ataraxia 009
2025-12-17 16:22 ` Jonathan Voss
2025-12-19 3:31 ` Greg Maxwell
2025-12-21 5:07 ` John
2025-12-23 19:12 ` Greg Maxwell
2025-12-24 17:19 ` waxwing/ AdamISZ
2025-12-30 14:36 ` Antoine Riard
2026-01-19 1:11 ` Pepe Hodler
2026-01-23 3:45 ` Chris Riley
2026-01-23 13:55 ` Galois Field
2026-01-22 1:14 ` Claire Ostrom
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