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MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_413156_1978593896.1765677107528" X-Original-Sender: pepehodler@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) ------=_Part_413156_1978593896.1765677107528 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_413157_612111755.1765677107528" ------=_Part_413157_612111755.1765677107528 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> The proposed gain is some negligible one time reduction in utxo disk=20 space. The current UTXO set contains around 40-50% of dust outputs in spam UTXOs.= =20 The Cat would remove all of them from the UTXO set. I hardly think that's= =20 negligible. And The Cat would further signal to spammers we are no longer= =20 tolerating them on bitcoin, which would further prevent future UTXO bloat. >> Were such a proposal seriously advanced it would likely cause a new=20 flood of transactions both to move to evade it directly and as a result of= =20 NFT indexer changes to just "wormhole" the tokens to new outputs after the= =20 fact Yes indeed, that would not be convenient for spammers, which is the entire= =20 point of The Cat. No one who is not a spammer would suffer.=20 >> And moreover the proposal would intentionally and knowingly confiscate= =20 millions of dollars in funds. =20 Only spammy UTXOs with below dust limit sats would be affected. And that=20 you think it would result in millions of dollars lost to spammers speaks=20 volume to how bad a problem spam is becoming. >> This is outright theft, and I believe it makes the idea a total=20 non-starter. That is false. They would keep their precious spam intact on chain, they=20 just would not be able to move it or transfer it to anyone else, which=20 would severely diminish their profit incentives. =20 >> No, just the Bitcoin-- but you indirectly make a fine point that it=20 probably ought to be considered too. =20 I don't think we should be considering the value or price of this spam. I= =20 don;t care if a jpeg is worth 1 cent or 1$ million, I don't want it on my= =20 bitcoin. If spammers lose any profit, that's the entire point of The Cat. >> It's fine that you or I agree that NFT crap isn't appropriate to bitcoin= =20 but those harmed aren't beholden to your or my *opinion* and will=20 absolutely seek redress through any and all means for the damage caused to= =20 them. If you advocate that we should cater to spammers, and be 'nice' to them,=20 the problem will only get worth. Let them rage quit.=20 On Saturday, 13 December 2025 at 08:20:25 UTC-7 Greg Maxwell wrote: > On Sat, Dec 13, 2025 at 10:05=E2=80=AFAM TwoLargePizzas wrote: > >> If the rules don't matter, they won't be bothered if the rules change.= =20 >> > > No, that kind of mutual exclusion is often not how things work and isn't= =20 > how they work here. They absolutely will be valued by this proposal=20 > stealing their bitcoins, but their NFT grifting will not ultimately be= =20 > effected otherwise. > > When you say "millions of dollars in funds" are you including the value o= f=20 >> the NFTs tied to those sats >> > > No, just the Bitcoin-- but you indirectly make a fine point that it=20 > probably ought to be considered too. It's fine that you or I agree that= =20 > NFT crap isn't appropriate to bitcoin but those harmed aren't beholden to= =20 > your or my *opinion* and will absolutely seek redress through any and all= =20 > means for the damage caused to them. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 46652fac-ca26-4103-8ce4-67356f21adcan%40googlegroups.com. ------=_Part_413157_612111755.1765677107528 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>> The proposed gain is some negligible one time reduction in utxo disk space.

The current UTXO set contains around 40-50% of dust outputs in spam UTXOs. The Cat would remove all of them from the UTXO set. I hardly think that's negligible. And The Cat would further signal to spammers we are no longer tolerating them on bitcoin, which would further prevent future UTXO bloat.

>>=C2=A0Were such a proposal seriously advanced it would likel= y cause a new flood of transactions both to move=C2=A0to evade it directly and as a result of NFT indexer changes to just "wormhole" the tokens to new outputs after the fact

Yes indeed, that would not be convenient for spammers, which is the entire point of The Cat. No one who is not a spammer would suffer.=C2=A0

>>=C2=A0And moreover the proposal would intentionally and knowingly confiscate millions of dollars in funds.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Only spammy UTXOs with below dust limit sats would be affected. And that you think it would result in millions of dollars lost to spammers speaks volume to how bad a problem spam is becoming.

>> This is outright theft, and I believe it makes the idea a total non-starter.

That is false. They would keep their precious spam intact on chain, they just would not be able to move it or transfer it to anyone else, which would severely diminish their profit incentives.=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>> No, just the Bitcoin-- but you indirectly make a fine point that it probably ought to be considered too.=C2=A0 =C2=A0

I don't think we should be considering the value or price of this spam. I don;t care if a jpeg is worth 1 cent or 1$ million, I don't want it on my bitcoin. If spammers lose any profit, that's the entire point of The Cat.

>> It's fine that you or I agree that NFT crap isn't appropriate to bitcoin but those harmed aren't beholden to your or my *opinion* and will absolutely seek redress through any and all means for the damage caused to them.

If you advocate that we should cater to spammers, and be 'nice' to them, the problem will only get worth. Let them rage quit.=C2=A0



On Saturday, 13 December 2025 at 08:20:25 UTC-7 Greg Maxwell wrote:
On Sat, Dec 13, 2025 at 10:05=E2=80=AFAM TwoLargePizzas = <zar...@gmail.com> wro= te:
If the rules don't matter, they = won't be bothered if the rules change.=C2=A0
No, tha= t kind of mutual exclusion is often not how things work and isn't how t= hey work here. They absolutely will be valued by this proposal stealing the= ir bitcoins,=C2=A0 but their NFT grifting will not ultimately be effected o= therwise.

When you = say "millions of dollars in funds" are you including the value of= the NFTs tied to those sats

<= div dir=3D"ltr">
No, just the Bitcoin-- but = you indirectly make a fine point that it probably ought to be considered to= o.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It's fine that you or I agree that NFT crap isn't ap= propriate to bitcoin but those harmed aren't beholden to your or my *op= inion* and will absolutely seek redress through any and all means for the d= amage caused to them.

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