From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Thu, 18 Dec 2025 17:49:50 -0800 Received: from mail-qv1-f62.google.com ([209.85.219.62]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1vWPcr-0008CZ-SS for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2025 17:49:50 -0800 Received: by mail-qv1-f62.google.com with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-88a366fa140sf55374366d6.1 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2025 17:49:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1766108983; x=1766713783; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:sender:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wIzS5+w0KGHeEBMzZPO8ByLogA5gFWEVf0CJbcjWkmY=; b=P+r6l5w5xj/Vl6W7W4P6JT10xbQ3B5rTNByy23qTRkcb+mzoyRelIId6FHLrSf5JJw KpoI2gEy4GEZ881ncpcbvBtSedE7xquxBuRy8bRDdSzAir/ep1iWFb+Tptj48v8cfWwj N5lSSN8IJtelkxql6XEj2et8mqrw5iq2rUmo55bsCyqX5j3K6rebTu0gR3hBhJNb2fAL eWNW1Xw2cjPsjy9ZeWw7srv6CCgD1gtJIPuNDwNZ8FGLc5TVH1BKS7VyRogmfPUee0CD 7cR+WxRp9ntzCZfP/f8/7qDdDqYwAMnvwSEzAGd5DJ31bsypPKyeqC4SXlhn8Xye/r9c 6pFw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1766108983; x=1766713783; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wIzS5+w0KGHeEBMzZPO8ByLogA5gFWEVf0CJbcjWkmY=; b=HAhxZjZ1G244bwXlpv6P/KdA0A/MNRmfp5fIR9eiLSm6JshvQm0i+jg/N3aFZAytpH ok6kKyzLObs23UG+6F1rR5hrQuYlb51vhyQmumLuAttPGFKVsZ/QYR9MQq5Z4Ug6dl7p RaP7h/8BOiB9H6Q4TM+UDBAYyUb00WYINnVO0Cux7mrEEqs7GcU6Kf4VUXChQNSTI/+/ UeQZMg7aL9uZdATDEFp19+i12WK/0LDD4WhscN4XuIYkf19D11dw0oJmx5hiHc3mxtWe Mz78ISMFxI0GCnlRkB1P89WAVlroMBTSiNKJQk3Msti33MBubE5vn5QqLSnDM51RhDar Qx7w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1766108983; x=1766713783; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:x-beenthere :x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=wIzS5+w0KGHeEBMzZPO8ByLogA5gFWEVf0CJbcjWkmY=; b=LIbHN5/2lvM5niSu34Tti20LDfwL9saJjLQBy4udnFLW/GHBs/6mhZWoV4bXYE0AIP lHAhNfDbMl8tBRd1s+v/4cwViGuXP3/SDu0ZNyAMnXIi8wJT/ZHYygxmKHob10MZwVAp yVVcHKSO/Ui2n09kpZeY8Xjsufe3RWZ0wz1fWIneSyPfFRRUE81UdbQu0ZD3dap+Cgjy ezWguv5MH4Oj4Y5KTq5ukapjLwVc3/r1DK3Nm4hFAp0qw72TXevVnPerhKh2yzSE4Txy Q3tTdkmt/SjNEfd8mxEFal/lR5ym167Za+F+iB+y0L21G/EMdJ0VDCD8/r/cGaKahpxi JQTw== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCV8qryMOsH8HIPCYsLtRChda4x+UExih8h3BMdVRMpmPmozIbAnH1EeQl8yTLeOFkF+oPnJcbMxzkMF@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxONzI1dU9WGW4pHOAoZJ7ZkvY/VJum43iSxuqAReQfpvtvQynf MhqrF4JKT4QsvkxzfoZIy6AvRG+qToCBDGvszx6eWF0IiYj/ksiSz6HH X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE2EmfkpMg8osH+GpDWDe2+JPaBG3z/K4lOkhRiVxk0KtNCq6RmyT4xXG8cBAGfLht2u3OYmQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:6004:b0:88a:306b:f05a with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-88d8203c521mr21739996d6.24.1766108983234; Thu, 18 Dec 2025 17:49:43 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h="AWVwgWZ9ZeIcCk/6VyF/vgCe0D1/wCN2hm5MVUOgAEpR7ra7bQ==" Received: by 2002:a05:6214:f6d:b0:87b:d44b:314a with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-8887cdddd1fls135195646d6.2.-pod-prod-01-us; Thu, 18 Dec 2025 17:49:36 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4009:b0:8b2:e17a:2a with SMTP id af79cd13be357-8c08f651200mr275053685a.10.1766108976832; Thu, 18 Dec 2025 17:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 2002:a05:690c:c444:10b0:786:6c46:840 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-78f9523e8d9ms7b3; Wed, 17 Dec 2025 08:22:53 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:6f07:b0:78c:7b51:be01 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-78e682ee8f1mr144422487b3.14.1765988572122; Wed, 17 Dec 2025 08:22:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2025 08:22:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Voss To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Message-Id: <4e947f47-b43d-4ec3-ac6a-aa66ea0cfb79n@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <32f8c689-314d-4a5e-9af6-2e3e704582e6n@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: The Cat, BIP draft discussion. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_142078_1130311296.1765988571709" X-Original-Sender: K98kurz@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) ------=_Part_142078_1130311296.1765988571709 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_142079_1479960140.1765988571709" ------=_Part_142079_1479960140.1765988571709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is my third attempt to respond to this. Idk what is going wrong here. The problem with dropping Bitcoin Stamps UTXOs from the UTXO set without a= =20 consensus change is that a clever use of steganography could cause one of= =20 those otherwise unspendable outputs to be spendable, thus causing a fork=20 between those nodes that adopted the Stamp pruning method and those that=20 did not once one of those steganographic Stamps is spent. Though this is=20 unlikely, it is still technically possible, and I would not put it past the= =20 denizens of the Internet to stir up trouble just for its own sake. On Friday, December 12, 2025 at 6:49:41=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5 Greg Maxwell wrote= : > On Fri, Dec 12, 2025 at 9:26=E2=80=AFPM Jonathan Voss = wrote: > >> Since the Bitcoin Stamps outputs are already unspendable, it makes=20 >> perfect sense to mark and drop them from the UTXO set. > > > There is no consensus change involved in not storing a provably=20 > unspendable output, it's just an implementation detail with no=20 > interoperability implications and doesn't need a BIP. Bitcoin core has= =20 > long done so for several types of unspendable outputs, e.g. outputs over= =20 > 10kb and ones starting with OP_RETURN. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 4e947f47-b43d-4ec3-ac6a-aa66ea0cfb79n%40googlegroups.com. ------=_Part_142079_1479960140.1765988571709 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is my third attempt to respond to this. Idk what is going wrong here.<= div>
The problem with dropping Bitcoin Stamps UTXOs from th= e UTXO set without a consensus change is that a clever use of steganography= could cause one of those otherwise unspendable outputs to be spendable, th= us causing a fork between those nodes that adopted the Stamp pruning method= and those that did not once one of those steganographic Stamps is spent. T= hough this is unlikely, it is still technically possible, and I would not p= ut it past the denizens of the Internet to stir up trouble just for its own= sake.

On Friday, December 12, 2025 at 6:49:41=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5 Gr= eg Maxwell wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2025 at 9:26=E2=80= =AFPM Jonathan Voss <k98...@g= mail.com> wrote:
Since the Bitcoin Sta= mps outputs are already unspendable, it makes perfect sense to mark and dro= p them from the UTXO set.

There is no consensus change invol= ved in not storing a provably unspendable output, it's just an implemen= tation detail with no interoperability implications and doesn't need a = BIP.=C2=A0 Bitcoin core has long done so for several types of unspendable o= utputs, e.g. outputs over 10kb and ones starting with OP_RETURN.
=

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