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[202.12.124.158]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id af79cd13be357-8cb4c2bbd44si32050585a.1.2026.02.16.16.32.02 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 16 Feb 2026 16:32:02 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of bitcoin-dev@lightco.in designates 202.12.124.158 as permitted sender) client-ip=202.12.124.158; Received: from phl-compute-04.internal (phl-compute-04.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailfhigh.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689727A01B8; Mon, 16 Feb 2026 19:32:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from phl-imap-15 ([10.202.2.104]) by phl-compute-04.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 16 Feb 2026 19:32:02 -0500 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefgedrtddtgddvudekfedvucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceu rghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnegouf hushhpvggtthffohhmrghinhculdegledmnecujfgurhepofggfffhvfevkfgjfhfutgfg sehtqhertdertdejnecuhfhrohhmpefnihhghhhtuceosghithgtohhinhdquggvvheslh highhhthgtohdrihhnqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeevjeetvdelleevkedtvdeufffg udelvedvieehhfefueejleehuefhvdehheeileenucffohhmrghinheptggrshgrrdhioh dpghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmpdhgohhoghhlvgdrtghomhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigv pedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegsihhttghoihhnqdguvghvsehlihhghh httghordhinhdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepvddpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhrtghp thhtohepjhgrmhgvshhonhdrlhhophhpsehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepsg hithgtohhinhguvghvsehgohhoghhlvghgrhhouhhpshdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ic4c14615:Fastmail Received: by mailuser.phl.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id F2C8178007A; Mon, 16 Feb 2026 19:32:01 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ThreadId: A-uJmYvaTvjF Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2026 19:31:41 -0500 From: Light To: "Jameson Lopp" Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <536c8559-39c4-4f63-a8a3-fd407253e886@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <9336f5a4-5c28-4c1b-af29-a8462b7a9377n@googlegroups.com> <57bd09bc-1c1b-4605-82f9-65b6b61cf8a2@app.fastmail.com> Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Hourglass V2 Update Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Sender: bitcoin-dev@lightco.in X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@lightco.in header.s=fm2 header.b=bk5N69GE; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=JCu2wYBR; spf=pass (google.com: domain of bitcoin-dev@lightco.in designates 202.12.124.158 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bitcoin-dev@lightco.in Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Hi Jameson, Just as "the incentives are in place" for short term greedy participants to= make their case for full node runners to follow them off a cliff, so are t= he incentives in place for those with longer term perspectives to encourage= authors of confiscatory proposals to abandon them, and encourage the rest = of the community to reject them as well.[1] The people who appeal to short-term incentives to call in the plunge protec= tion squad fail to see that in doing so they irreparably damage the long te= rm value of their coins (and create extra work for those of us with lower t= ime preferences who must now consider the logistics of defensive forking) b= y undermining one of the foundational principles that gives their coins val= ue to begin with. There is a difference between "can" and "should" and the norm around here i= s pretty well established that bitcoin protocol developers (and the broader= community of full node runners) "should not" interfere with existing spend= ing conditions, even if they are believed to be insecure. Key (mis)manageme= nt is an application layer concern, not a consensus layer concern. If you d= isagree, where is your proposal for freezing coins held on exchanges? You h= ave already written about the risks posed by such custody arrangements, and= this is a much more imminent threat than the specter of a CRQC.[2] [1] To say nothing of the incentives of the vulnerable keyholders and the C= RQC operators, but that is a secondary and more academic topic compared to = the discussion about principles and long term system integrity. [2] https://blog.casa.io/the-custodian-menace On Mon, Feb 16, 2026, at 5:03 PM, Jameson Lopp wrote: > Bitcoin is ultimately a system of rules that are enforced by those who=20 > use the system and hold the keys to spend UTXOs. As such, if a=20 > sufficiently large cohort of economic power within the system is=20 > interested in protecting itself against massive liquidation events from= =20 > malicious actors who arguably are not the rightful owners of UTXOs, the= =20 > incentives are in place for them to do something about it. > > I like Hourglass V2 a lot more than V1. My primary complaint is that 1=20 > BTC per block is somewhat arbitrary. It would be interesting to point=20 > to the on-chain statistics of what P2PK UTXO spend volume we have seen=20 > in recent years. > > Additionally, in the context of my own migration BIP, Hourglass V2=20 > could be complementary to the concept of offering a ZK quantum safe=20 > spending option for folks who fail to migrate UTXOs to quantum safe=20 > scripts before a set deadline, given that these old P2PK outputs do not= =20 > belong to HD wallets and thus the owners would be incapable of=20 > constructing a ZK proof of HD wallet ownership. > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2026 at 5:12=E2=80=AFPM Light wr= ote: >> Bitcoin should not have an in-protocol plunge protection mechanism, and = certainly not one that artificially restricts people's ability to spend the= ir coins. I encourage you to withdraw this proposal, for the sake of bitcoi= n's integrity and utility as a p2p electronic cash system. >>=20 >> On Tue, Feb 10, 2026, at 3:47 PM, Mike Casey wrote: >> > In response to feedback, the Hourglass proposal to mitigate against=20 >> > potential mass liquidation of P2PK funds has been enhanced to further= =20 >> > limit spend amounts from such outputs to only 1 bitcoin per block. >> > https://github.com/cryptoquick/bips/blob/hourglass-v2/bip-hourglass-v2= .mediawiki >> > >> > Prior discussion of the original Hourglass proposal: >> > https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/zmg3U117aNc/m/lDCMs9j7EAAJ >> > >> > Thoughts & feedback welcome! >> > >> > --=20 >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20 >> > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= =20 >> > an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com . >> > To view this discussion visit=20 >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/9336f5a4-5c28-4c1b-af29-a= 8462b7a9377n%40googlegroups.com=20 >> > . >>=20 >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com . >> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoind= ev/57bd09bc-1c1b-4605-82f9-65b6b61cf8a2%40app.fastmail.com. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 536c8559-39c4-4f63-a8a3-fd407253e886%40app.fastmail.com.