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[202.12.124.140]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 586e51a60fabf-459f78994a2si275579fac.1.2026.08.10.04.04.39 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 10 Aug 2026 04:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 202.12.124.140 as permitted sender) client-ip=202.12.124.140; Received: from ams-compute-02.internal (ams-compute-02.internal [10.64.2.62]) by mailflow.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B0E13006E8; Mon, 10 Aug 2026 07:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-imap-01 ([10.64.2.21]) by ams-compute-02.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 10 Aug 2026 07:04:38 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: dmFkZTEn8jcTM4+mOIsUe0ZJQHS7USe1V7HjFii8AYZWPfQYc28IQCxOZ4WnubPeBmvh+a 9VYLMgI3A0Go+djDcruTq3oKKTW2wQC6QKq0ZG69K/pEgNwIl7glTcLMjg3C9cyohOCy1I Kw4T8Pxml73ddcGWlUWkagHVI6O6iHSNWaI5WU4ppL4v5zTJUZ8bIWpX/07T2euz6XzHjG iRKHk7GT/K6p6FIOyWGuwdffn5z4vgv/byA12JTa62xrN6AL/n1CsGk+ZT8Oz/PUTTvF5Y t4QuEgH9FgiPxKY2KtmzRBBZ4rkzU4jskY1MYA8707Gomb651SALQJoHQM535dXXmdVCEr VzQAFlb1CXIXMHYOei3MWYaCmPiqta66PBPlO+Zu4UNY50XxPKM5XJMYLXH59sQFcxuBNC +DcsjqYKdYY/oDQWnM2DDWUXVHWQq0cLRZ50In7Eu++bdxG4GjDxQbWgAPpPnVN6Tw8o4U kTbUlmGfEFLKpoW8Viwn3IbBHruSKHwxfOpH9P53+PlCCNSPPpEdBfiUKdQzMPgsxDvier Cs8yj1Bh0hdKvwUKJ0KOgW8VJHY84mZU3JdH00bIbpiOM4IUgVwVP6unv995K3AozSvMLn ZcUo7Jhvk/+iQwZUYJq2bKUkdvLrs+7jDLrfVMCFjnG14oDLvoY3LHoYMY9A X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ie5e042df:Fastmail Received: by mailuser.ams.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0AD88FA0069; Mon, 10 Aug 2026 07:04:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ThreadId: AmUcnWsYJkTB Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 13:03:58 +0200 From: "Sjors Provoost" To: "Greg Tonoski" , Murch , "'Bitcoin Development Mailing List'" Message-Id: <5911e0ad-b8f1-4cdb-bd6e-47f032c72924@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <474c04c7-fa32-4f97-84ae-722f12f08f40@murch.one> Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] BIP 110: update status to closed Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e49c112dea7dac873de4b915192beb1673ffc4e5 X-Original-Sender: sjors@sprovoost.nl X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@sprovoost.nl header.s=fm1 header.b="Zx3/X+D0"; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=GbwZfEHe; spf=pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 202.12.124.140 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sjors@sprovoost.nl; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=sprovoost.nl Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --e49c112dea7dac873de4b915192beb1673ffc4e5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg, Closing a BIP does not confiscate coins. The only way to achieve that would= a new BIP enforcing a confiscatory soft fork on top of the BIP 110 forked = chain. Or a checkpoint on the winning chain. Nobody is advocating for eithe= r. Closing a BIP also doesn't ban anyone from running a node or continuing to = mine. But the odds of catching up are slim. I'm not in a rush to close it, but what would be your own criteria for when= it's reasonable to do so? I could spin up a BIP 12 (OP_EVAL) node tomorrow, reject P2SH by forking of= f at its activation height, and probably mine a whole bunch of blocks trivi= ally. Modern Bitcoin Core wouldn't reject those blocks, because checkpoints= have been removed. But I would never catch up with the tip. Nobody would s= eriously considering reopening BIP12 in such a scenario, even if I ran a mi= llion nodes. For BIP110, it was obvious to me years ago [1] that this was never going to= work, not as a policy rule, and not as a consensus rule. For others it loo= k longer realize this, and some people never will. Hard to put an exact num= ber on when to close it, though now would be fine. - Sjors [0] https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0012.mediawiki [1] see e.g. https://bitcoinexplainedpodcast.com/@nado/episodes/episode-98-= return-of-the-op-return and my comments on=20 On Sun, Aug 9, 2026, at 22:12, Greg Tonoski wrote: > The BIP-110 was activated at the block height as you (Mark Erhardt) appro= ved in the specification. There wasn't any other "adoption" criteria (espec= ially "2.5%"). >=20 > As the Bitcoin Whitepaper says: "As long as honest nodes control the most= CPU power on the network, they can generate the longest chain and outpace = any attackers. (...) Each node works on finding a difficult proof-of-work f= or its block". The chain is mined by many more nodes than the single one "R= oughnecks" that you mentioned below. Roughnecks' decision does not represen= t the other nodes. Roughnecks node is free to leave at will as specified in= the Bitcoin Whitepaper: "Nodes can leave and rejoin the network at will (.= ..)". Again, there are estimated 18 000 fully validating nodes in the Bitco= in network and they don't reject the BIP-110 soft-fork (a.k.a. RDTS). I am = running of the nodes and has just broadcast a transaction. It's not an altc= oin transaction. The bitcoins should not be confiscated. Therefore, I think= that my objection is justified. >=20 > I look forward to a reply. >=20 > On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 at 21:42, Murch wrote: >> Hello Greg, >>=20 >> BIP=E2=80=AF110 failed to achieve adoption in both phases of its deploym= ent=20 >> attempt. It got just shy of 2.5% of blocks signaling readiness in the=20 >> latest signaling period, and since RDTS nodes mandated signaling, RDTS= =20 >> nodes relegated themselves to a chain that only found two blocks, while= =20 >> the Bitcoin blockchain grew by 134 blocks. The sole block author on the= =20 >> RDTS chaintip has since announced that they have ceased mining on the=20 >> stalled chaintip. >>=20 >> While it=E2=80=99s your choice to remain on the stalled chaintip or to t= hrow-in=20 >> with the hard fork that is now being discussed, it=E2=80=99s clear that = the=20 >> Bitcoin network rejected the soft fork. The minority hashrate chaintip= =20 >> therefore constitutes a forkcoin. Altcoins are not on-topic for the BIPs= =20 >> repository, and therefore, BIP110 should be advanced from Deployed to=20 >> Closed as it is obsolete. >>=20 >> Murch >>=20 >> On 2026-08-09 11:36, Greg Tonoski wrote: >> > Objection. The Bitcoin Improvement Proposal 110 (BIP-110 Reduced Data= =20 >> > Temporary Softfork) has been activated. There are two blocks with the= =20 >> > bit 4 signal (block height 961633) and the estimated 18 000 fully=20 >> > validating nodes in the network. I keep running such a node and=20 >> > accepting payments even if time interval between blocks is temporarily= =20 >> > longer until the next difficulty adjustment. >> >=20 >> > On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 at 20:07, Jon Atack > > > wrote: >> >=20 >> > Hello list, >> >=20 >> > I'd like to propose marking BIP 110 Reduced Data Temporary Softfor= k >> > as closed, following the chain split yesterday during its mandator= y >> > signaling period, when its chain began rejecting as invalid all >> > blocks that did not signal bit 4 and mining and block production >> > stalled on the BIP 110 chain. >> >=20 >> > Per BIP 3, a BIP may evolve from Deployed to Closed when it is no >> > longer in active use. Any community member may initiate this statu= s >> > update by announcing it to the mailing list, and proceed if no >> > objections have been raised for four weeks. BIPs are not deleted; >> > they are retained for historical/educational interest after being >> > updated to Closed. >> >=20 >> > Regards, >> > Jon >> >=20 >> > --=20 >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> > send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> > >. >> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ >> > bitcoindev/cf801753-e5b1-46bf-a0ae-9d88a0624829n%40googlegroups.co= m >> > > > a0ae-9d88a0624829n%40googlegroups.com? >> > utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>. >> >=20 >> > --=20 >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20 >> > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= =20 >> > an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com =20 >> > >. >> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=20 >> > bitcoindev/CAMHHROy%3DNNoaRc828xp_Qr-=20 >> > GJqoDguTrowfBKsk0XuYsgaOhSg%40mail.gmail.com > > d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAMHHROy%3DNNoaRc828xp_Qr-=20 >> > GJqoDguTrowfBKsk0XuYsgaOhSg%40mail.gmail.com?=20 >> > utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>. >>=20 >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com . >> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoind= ev/474c04c7-fa32-4f97-84ae-722f12f08f40%40murch.one. >=20 >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoinde= v/CAMHHROzXou09Sv0%3DXGNFd36Ng4Ld-iM44dvcX8SYOb8%3DdoMLRw%40mail.gmail.com = . --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 5911e0ad-b8f1-4cdb-bd6e-47f032c72924%40app.fastmail.com. --e49c112dea7dac873de4b915192beb1673ffc4e5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Greg,
<= div>
Closing a BIP does not confiscate coins. The only way to= achieve that would a new BIP enforcing a confiscatory soft fork on top of = the BIP 110 forked chain. Or a checkpoint on the winning chain. Nobody is a= dvocating for either.

Closing a BIP also doesn't b= an anyone from running a node or continuing to mine. But the odds of catchi= ng up are slim.

I'm not in a rush to close it,= but what would be your own criteria for when it's reasonable to do so?

I could spin up a BIP 12 (OP_EVAL) node tomorrow, rej= ect P2SH by forking off at its activation height, and probably mine a whole= bunch of blocks trivially. Modern Bitcoin Core wouldn't reject those block= s, because checkpoints have been removed. But I would never catch up with t= he tip. Nobody would seriously considering reopening BIP12 in such a scenar= io, even if I ran a million nodes.

For BIP110, it = was obvious to me years ago [1] that this was never going to work, not as a= policy rule, and not as a consensus rule. For others it look longer realiz= e this, and some people never will. Hard to put an exact number on when to = close it, though now would be fine.

- Sjors
<= div>



=

On Sun, Aug 9, 2026, at 22:12,= Greg Tonoski wrote:
The BIP-110 was activated at the block height as you (M= ark Erhardt) approved in the specification. There wasn't any other "adoptio= n" criteria (especially "2.5%").

As the Bitcoin Wh= itepaper says: "As long as honest nodes control the most CPU power on the n= etwork, they can generate the longest chain and outpace any attackers. (...= ) Each node works on finding a difficult proof-of-work for its block". The = chain is mined by many more nodes than the single one "Roughnecks" that you= mentioned below. Roughnecks' decision does not represent the other nodes. = Roughnecks node is free to leave at will as specified in the Bitcoin Whitep= aper: "Nodes can leave and rejoin the network at will (...)". Again, there = are estimated 18 000 fully validating nodes in the Bitcoin network and they= don't reject the BIP-110 soft-fork (a.k.a. RDTS). I am running of the node= s and has just broadcast a transaction. It's not an altcoin transaction. Th= e bitcoins should not be confiscated. Therefore, I think that my objection = is justified.

I look forward to a reply.

On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 at 21:42, Murch <mur= ch@murch.one> wrote:
Hello Greg,

BIP=E2=80= =AF110 failed to achieve adoption in both phases of its deployment
attempt. It got just shy of 2.5% of blocks signaling readiness in the <= /div>
latest signaling period, and since RDTS nodes mandated signaling= , RDTS
nodes relegated themselves to a chain that only found tw= o blocks, while
the Bitcoin blockchain grew by 134 blocks. The = sole block author on the
RDTS chaintip has since announced that= they have ceased mining on the
stalled chaintip.
While it=E2=80=99s your choice to remain on the stalled chain= tip or to throw-in
with the hard fork that is now being discuss= ed, it=E2=80=99s clear that the
Bitcoin network rejected the so= ft fork. The minority hashrate chaintip
therefore constitutes a= forkcoin. Altcoins are not on-topic for the BIPs
repository, a= nd therefore, BIP110 should be advanced from Deployed to
Closed= as it is obsolete.

Murch

<= div> On 2026-08-09 11:36, Greg Tonoski wrote:
> Objection. Th= e Bitcoin Improvement Proposal 110 (BIP-110 Reduced Data
> T= emporary Softfork) has been activated. There are two blocks with the
=
> bit 4 signal (block height 961633) and the estimated 18 000 full= y
> validating nodes in the network. I keep running such a n= ode and
> accepting payments even if time interval between b= locks is temporarily
> longer until the next difficulty adju= stment.
>
> On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 at 20:07, Jon A= tack <jonnyata= ck@gmail.com
> <mailto:jonnyatack@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hello list,
>
>     I'd like to propose marking BIP 110 = Reduced Data Temporary Softfork
>     as close= d, following the chain split yesterday during its mandatory
>=      signaling period, when its chain began rejecting as inv= alid all
>     blocks that did not signal bit = 4 and mining and block production
>     stalle= d on the BIP 110 chain.
>
>     = ;Per BIP 3, a BIP may evolve from Deployed to Closed when it is no
>     longer in active use. Any community member may i= nitiate this status
>     update by announcing= it to the mailing list, and proceed if no
>   = ;  objections have been raised for four weeks. BIPs are not deleted;
>     they are retained for historical/educatio= nal interest after being
>     updated to Clos= ed.
>
>     Regards,
= >     Jon
>
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