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[79.135.106.98]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 38308e7fff4ca-3a370500bf8si585671fa.6.2026.09.04.08.18.06 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 04 Sep 2026 08:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of conduition@proton.me designates 79.135.106.98 as permitted sender) client-ip=79.135.106.98; Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2026 15:18:01 +0000 To: Sergio Demian Lerner From: "'conduition' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" Cc: jeremy , Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Knowledge Gathering: SPV Proof Applications In the Wild and Proposed Message-ID: <6Zyn9YqvVDHYG5jKAif7_3P_V4elPH3YMm9qZ2Yz6Tt45dfqnTuAVzBpGo7WjRYBaaexd9YUSGzc9mvzspsUAb_HezPe8Kjye-ZR57f-qMU=@proton.me> In-Reply-To: References: <9001a42f-b497-41c1-895d-3ec902f2413cn@googlegroups.com> Feedback-ID: 72003692:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 57d6345d5d98e13ef4022024952db9da9916ced7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="------c5bf3948d928deadd62fbe23de98a30e07855eaa44a21ebbd7ace20890193613"; charset=utf-8 X-Original-Sender: conduition@proton.me X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@proton.me header.s=protonmail header.b=j92yzGqm; spf=pass (google.com: domain of conduition@proton.me designates 79.135.106.98 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=conduition@proton.me; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=proton.me X-Original-From: conduition Reply-To: conduition Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------c5bf3948d928deadd62fbe23de98a30e07855eaa44a21ebbd7ace20890193613 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary=---------------------d77f193de82677dd5543015d2aea07b1 -----------------------d77f193de82677dd5543015d2aea07b1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative;boundary=---------------------fb6ac7a811494624789c63f72cb10341 -----------------------fb6ac7a811494624789c63f72cb10341 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hey Jeremy, Just wanted to include DropKick here. DropKick is a PQ rescue protocol that= uses SPV-like proofs of block inclusion to prove that an honest user knew = a secret before a quantum attacker did, i.e. a commit/reveal protocol. Details here:=C2=A0https://conduition.io/bitcoin/dropkick/=C2=A0 and=C2=A0here:=C2=A0https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/6SqWPfBf-p0 regards, conduition On Thursday, June 4th, 2026 at 10:26 PM, Sergio Demian Lerner wrote: > Rootstock uses SPV proofs to power its Bitcoin SPV node that runs in cons= ensus inside the Bridge smart contract. The bridge uses SPV proofs to accep= t peg-ins and peg-outs change, after 100 Bitcoin confirmations.The system i= s decentralized: any user can submit Bitcoin headers to build the Bridge vi= ew of Bitcoin. The Bridge maintains the canonical chain and all potential f= orks. All forks can be extended with block headers having the right PoW. > The codebase is based on Bitcoinj. > The system has been running since 2018 without interruptions. > The SPV proof verifier is protected from Merkle node type confusions (64-= byte txs). >=20 > Sergio >=20 > On Mon, May 25, 2026 at 3:37=E2=80=AFPM jeremy = wrote: >=20 > > I received the below as reply-one and am forwarding with permission: > >=20 > > ------ > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Hi Jeremy, > >=20 > > This is a presentation I did in 2016 on SPV as "Satoshi's scaling solut= ion". > >=20 > > There are no new types of proofs, just old fashioned proofs-of-coin and= proofs-of-spend. My approach was to try to envision what the whole network= would need to look like. > >=20 > > A common objection to SPV was that full nodes would be "overloaded", so= I introduced spv-serving light nodes with different services. > >=20 > > A key idea (which is not stated explicitly in the slides) is for a node= to advertise interest in a set of tx hash stems for which it would provide= proof services, and for which it wanted to be relayed transactions. The se= t would contain stems of varying lengths that could be as short as 1 hex ch= aracter or as long as some max. > >=20 > > Wallets would do this same registration to cause transactions to be rou= ted to themselves. Nearly all of those stems would be randomly introduced f= or privacy. > >=20 > > Bloom filters are mentioned as part of a transaction repeater service b= ut that was for compatibility with existing SPV wallets of the time. The ma= in idea was to achieve scaling and privacy by the registration scheme. > >=20 > > Hope it's useful in some way! > >=20 > >=20 > > Cheers, > > Tom Harding > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > On Thursday, May 14, 2026 at 10:47:59=E2=80=AFAM UTC-4 jeremy wrote: > >=20 > > > Dear Bitcoin Developers, > > > SPV proofs are an important part of Bitcoin's Design, after all Satos= hi thought they were worth including in the whitepaper! > > > As far as I'm aware, they have somewhat limited usage in the wild, ma= inly in Electrum and in Layer 2 Bridges, but it is important that they work= correctly. > > >=20 > > > I'd like to gather a bit more detailed information on where and how S= PV proofs are currently used, as well as any other proposed uses of SPV pro= ofs. > > >=20 > > > In this Knowledge Gathering, I'd also like to glean a better understa= nding of what types of commitment structures might work "better" than other= s for SPV -- e.g., ability to cheaply verify if a block pays a particular a= ddress, spends a particular coin, and the exclusion forms (does not pay an = address, does not spend a coin) etc, especially in the context of Layer 2 B= ridging. > > >=20 > > > Happy International Chihuahua Appreciation Day, > > >=20 > > > Jeremy > >=20 > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send = an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoin= dev/9001a42f-b497-41c1-895d-3ec902f2413cn%40googlegroups.com. >=20 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoinde= v/CAKzdR-pSKPXjBnWJZMASDRZve5Y1ekeTo7eG_f%3DWV-vVn1xZPQ%40mail.gmail.com. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 6Zyn9YqvVDHYG5jKAif7_3P_V4elPH3YMm9qZ2Yz6Tt45dfqnTuAVzBpGo7WjRYBaaexd9YUSGz= c9mvzspsUAb_HezPe8Kjye-ZR57f-qMU%3D%40proton.me. -----------------------fb6ac7a811494624789c63f72cb10341 Content-Type: multipart/related;boundary=---------------------8699fc480bb64fe8103c85f176df98c5 -----------------------8699fc480bb64fe8103c85f176df98c5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Jeremy,=

<= /div>
Just w= anted to include DropKick here. DropKick is a PQ rescue protocol that uses = SPV-like proofs of block inclusion to prove that an honest user knew a secr= et before a quantum attacker did, i.e. a commit/reveal protocol.


On Thursday, June 4th, 2026 at 10:26 PM, Sergio Demian Lerner <s= ergio.d.lerner@gmail.com> wrote:
Rootstock uses SPV proofs to power its Bitcoin= SPV node that runs in consensus inside the Bridge smart contract. The brid= ge uses SPV proofs to accept peg-ins and peg-outs change, after 100 Bitcoin= confirmations.
The system is decentralized: any user can submit Bitcoi= n headers to build the Bridge view of Bitcoin. The Bridge maintains the can= onical chain and all potential forks. All forks can be extended with block = headers having the right PoW.
The codebase is based on Bitcoinj.<= /div>
The system has been running since 2018 without interruptions= .
The SPV proof verifier is protected from Merkle node type= confusions (64-byte txs).

Sergio

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
On Mon, May 25, 2026 at 3:37=E2=80=AFPM jeremy <jeremy.= l.rubin@gmail.com> wrote:

I received the below as reply-one and am forw= arding with permission:

------


Hi Jeremy,

This is a presentation I did in 2016 on= SPV as "Satoshi's scaling solution".

There are no new type= s of proofs, just old fashioned proofs-of-coin and proofs-of-spend. My appr= oach was to try to envision what the whole network would need to look like.=

A common objection to SPV was that full nodes would be "ov= erloaded", so I introduced spv-serving light nodes with different services.=

A key idea (which is not stated explicitly in the slides) = is for a node to advertise interest in a set of tx hash stems for which it = would provide proof services, and for which it wanted to be relayed transac= tions. The set would contain stems of varying lengths that could be as sho= rt as 1 hex character or as long as some max.

Wallets would= do this same registration to cause transactions to be routed to themselves= . Nearly all of those stems would be randomly introduced for privacy.

<= p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-= size:small">Bloom filters are mentioned as part of a transaction repeater s= ervice but that was for compatibility with existing SPV wallets of the time= . The main idea was to achieve scaling and privacy by the registration sch= eme.

Hope it's useful in some way!


Chee= rs,
Tom Harding



On Thursday, May 14, 2026 at 10:47:59=E2=80=AFAM UTC-4= jeremy wrote:
D= ear Bitcoin Developers,

SPV proofs are an important part of B= itcoin's Design, after all Satoshi thought they were worth including in the= whitepaper!

As far as I'm aware, they have somewhat lim= ited usage in the wild, mainly in Electrum and in Layer 2 Bridges, but it i= s important that they work correctly.

I'd like to ga= ther a bit more detailed information on where and how SPV proofs are curren= tly used, as well as any other proposed uses of SPV proofs.

<= /div>
In this Knowledge Gathering, I'd also like to glean a better unde= rstanding of what types of commitment structures might work "better" than o= thers for SPV -- e.g., ability to cheaply verify if a block pays a particul= ar address, spends a particular coin, and the exclusion forms (does not pay= an address, does not spend a coin) etc, especially in the context of Layer= 2 Bridging.

Happy International Chihuahua Appreci= ation Day,

Jeremy

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/9001a42f-b497-41c1-895= d-3ec902f2413cn%40googlegroups.com.

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