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Thu, 13 Nov 2025 13:59:47 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1919:b0:43d:25a2:e28c with SMTP id 5614622812f47-450975b6d88mr461611b6e.49.1763071187791; Thu, 13 Nov 2025 13:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 2002:a05:690c:6303:b0:785:e55d:2dfd with SMTP id 00721157ae682-78929f9dfd3ms7b3; Thu, 13 Nov 2025 10:54:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:690b:b0:787:ed0d:42ac with SMTP id 00721157ae682-78929f39c57mr4144477b3.48.1763060060620; Thu, 13 Nov 2025 10:54:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2025 10:54:20 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Sanders To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Message-Id: <899eb548-3e3b-4b85-8ae0-1e64d15f1b86n@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <0ed80dd1-35ba-4f10-8aac-1069c6050380@murch.one> References: <205b3532-ccc1-4b2f-964f-264fc6e0e70b@murch.one> <0ed80dd1-35ba-4f10-8aac-1069c6050380@murch.one> Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Motion to Activate BIP 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_19726_1707860088.1763060060259" X-Original-Sender: gsanders87@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) ------=_Part_19726_1707860088.1763060060259 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19727_1045757257.1763060060259" ------=_Part_19727_1045757257.1763060060259 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Makes sense to me, and this e-mail can be a reference point if there's=20 future discussion. With what little review I've done, I think this makes sense to activate! Greg On Wednesday, November 12, 2025 at 7:30:59=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5 Murch wrote: > Hey Greg, > > Two sections from BIP=E2=80=AF3 stand out as relevant here, =E2=80=9CBIP= =E2=80=AFOwnership=E2=80=9C and=20 > =E2=80=9CDeployed Process BIPs=E2=80=9D. > > From =E2=80=9CFundamentals > BIP Ownership=E2=80=9D: > > =E2=80=9C[=E2=80=A6] As a BIP progresses through the workflow, it becom= es=20 > increasingly co-owned by the Bitcoin community.=E2=80=9D > > While Deployed BIPs are considered final and changes should be avoided,= =20 > the section has a subsection that specifically addresses Process BIPs. > > From =E2=80=9CWorkflow > Progression through BIP Statuses > Deployed > Pr= ocess=20 > BIPs=E2=80=9D: > > =E2=80=9CA Process BIP may change status from Complete to Deployed when= it=20 > achieves rough consensus on the Bitcoin Development Mailing List. A=20 > proposal is said to have rough consensus if its advancement has been=20 > open to discussion on the mailing list for at least one month, the=20 > discussion achieved meaningful engagement, and no person maintains any=20 > unaddressed substantiated objections to it. Addressed or obstructive=20 > objections may be ignored/overruled by general agreement that they have= =20 > been sufficiently addressed, but clear reasoning must be given in such=20 > circumstances. Deployed Process BIPs may be modified indefinitely as=20 > long as a proposed modification has rough consensus per the same criteria= .=E2=80=9D > > More specific rules supersede general rules, so this subsection on=20 > Process BIPs should hopefully clearly override the general description=20 > in =E2=80=9CDeployed=E2=80=9D. It follows from these two sections that th= e BIP Authors=E2=80=99=20 > right to decide about changes to their BIP=E2=80=AFis moderated by the co= mmunity=20 > interests. I would consider especially Process BIPs to be dominantly=20 > owned by the community rather than the Authors once they are Deployed.=20 > The quoted section states how they are modified =E2=80=94 by proposing an= d=20 > discussing a modification on the mailing list, which is also a=20 > fitting summary of how we decided last year to add more BIP Editors. > > Additionally, the =E2=80=9CWorkflow > Transferring BIP Ownership=E2=80=9D= section makes=20 > it clear that other Owners could step up to replace Authors that have=20 > become unreachable. > > Pragmatically speaking, it seems obvious that the list of BIP Editors=20 > would be amended in the currently active BIP Process Specification=20 > whenever the active BIP Editors change. Historically, this worked fine=20 > when Editors changed while BIP=E2=80=AF1 and BIP=E2=80=AF2 were active wh= ich both also=20 > specified the current BIP=E2=80=AFEditors in the same manner. > > Thank you for your review. Please let me know, if you think we should=20 > amend BIP=E2=80=AF3 to more clearly state any of the above discussed thou= ghts. > > Best, > Murch > > On 2025-11-12 11:03, Greg Sanders wrote: > > Hello Murch, > > > > I really like the BIP, just have a question about the editor portion. > > > > The list of current editors are currently in the BIP text, which seems= =20 > > to imply that the list can be changed by the author himself only and=20 > > would become "static" over time. > > > > Clearly support for changing has to continue as it goes to Deployed=20 > > and beyond. Perhaps the text should be moved elsewhere? > > > > Best, > > Greg > > > > On Tuesday, November 4, 2025 at 8:11:39=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5 Murch wrote: > > > > Dear list, > > > > After planned work on BIP=E2=80=AF3=E2=81=B0 finished in February, BIP= =E2=80=AF3 was > > advanced to > > Proposed in March 2025=C2=B9. A few minor adjustments were made to BIP= =E2=80=AF3 > > since then (see below). I have since April maintained a pull request > > that would activate BIP=E2=80=AF3: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull= /1820. > > > > At this point,=E2=80=AFBIP=E2=80=AF3 has received over 600 comments on = GitHub and has > > been discussed in multiple threads on this list. The proposal has > > been > > Proposed for over seven months, and while several minor improvements > > were proposed and processed, the proposal has no unaddressed > > objections > > stated here or on the activation pull request. A growing list of > > people > > has expressed explicit support for activating BIP=E2=80=AF3 by leaving = an > > ACK on > > the pull request after reviewing the BIP: > > https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1820#issue-2990155954 > > > > I formally propose a motion to adopt BIP=E2=80=AF3 to replace BIP=E2=80= =AF2 as our > > BIPs > > Process. > > > > Since BIP=E2=80=AF2 doesn=E2=80=99t specify a procedure for activating = Process > > BIPs, I > > suggest that people who wish to state their support leave an ACK on > > #1820 or reply in this thread. Similarly, I would like to invite > > anyone > > to state concerns or raise objections here or on #1820. > > While BIP=E2=80=AF3 has long been proposed and the activation PR has be= en > > open > > for over half a year, I suggest that we give all would-be reviewers > > another four weeks, until 2025-12-02, before evaluating whether > > there is > > rough consensus for merging the activation pull request. This > > should be > > ample time to review and discuss BIP=E2=80=AF3 as well as the activatio= n PR, > > even for people that have so far not engaged with the material. > > > > Best, > > Murch > > > > ---- > > > > Summary of changes since BIP=E2=80=AF3 was advanced to Proposed: > > > > - The License header now uses SPDX License Expressions=C2=B2 > > - The License-Code header was dropped in favor of requiring that the > > license terms of the auxiliary files be specified in the respective > > directory or folder per a license header or LICENSE file=C2=B2 > > - The =E2=80=9CCreated=E2=80=9D header has been renamed to =E2=80=9CAss= igned=E2=80=9D=C2=B3 > > - The BIP text has been improved to clarify: > > - the purpose of the BIPs repository=E2=81=B4 > > - that authors should establish viability of their proposal on the > > mailing list=E2=81=B4 > > - the distinction between publication, acceptance, and adoption of > > proposals=E2=81=B4 > > - when Draft BIPs can be closed due to not making progress=E2=81=B4 > > - that BIPs submissions may not be generated by AI/LLM=E2=81=B5 > > > > =E2=81=B0 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0003.md > > =C2=B9 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1794 > > =C2=B2 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1892 > > =C2=B3 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1970 > > =E2=81=B4 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1819 > > =E2=81=B5 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/2006 > > > > --=20 > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20 > > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= =20 > > an email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion visit=20 > >=20 > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/b1771bde-7fbc-4fa3-8151-9259= c49f7c97n%40googlegroups.com=20 > > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/b1771bde-7fbc-4fa3-8151-9259= c49f7c97n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter > >. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 899eb548-3e3b-4b85-8ae0-1e64d15f1b86n%40googlegroups.com. ------=_Part_19727_1045757257.1763060060259 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Makes sense to me, and this e-mail can be a reference point if there's futu= re discussion.

With what little review I've done, I th= ink this makes sense to activate!

Greg

O= n Wednesday, November 12, 2025 at 7:30:59=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5 Murch wrote:
Hey Greg,

Two sections from BIP=E2=80=AF3 stand out as relevant here, =E2=80=9CBI= P=E2=80=AFOwnership=E2=80=9C and=20
=E2=80=9CDeployed Process BIPs=E2=80=9D.

From =E2=80=9CFundamentals > BIP Ownership=E2=80=9D:
> =E2=80=9C[=E2=80=A6] As a BIP progresses through the workflow, it= becomes=20
increasingly co-owned by the Bitcoin community.=E2=80=9D

While Deployed BIPs are considered final and changes should be avoided,= =20
the section has a subsection that specifically addresses Process BIPs.

From =E2=80=9CWorkflow > Progression through BIP Statuses > Depl= oyed > Process=20
BIPs=E2=80=9D:
> =E2=80=9CA Process BIP may change status from Complete to Deploye= d when it=20
achieves rough consensus on the Bitcoin Development Mailing List. A=20
proposal is said to have rough consensus if its advancement has been=20
open to discussion on the mailing list for at least one month, the=20
discussion achieved meaningful engagement, and no person maintains any= =20
unaddressed substantiated objections to it. Addressed or obstructive=20
objections may be ignored/overruled by general agreement that they have= =20
been sufficiently addressed, but clear reasoning must be given in such= =20
circumstances. Deployed Process BIPs may be modified indefinitely as=20
long as a proposed modification has rough consensus per the same criter= ia.=E2=80=9D

More specific rules supersede general rules, so this subsection on=20
Process BIPs should hopefully clearly override the general description= =20
in =E2=80=9CDeployed=E2=80=9D. It follows from these two sections that = the BIP Authors=E2=80=99=20
right to decide about changes to their BIP=E2=80=AFis moderated by the = community=20
interests. I would consider especially Process BIPs to be dominantly=20
owned by the community rather than the Authors once they are Deployed.= =20
The quoted section states how they are modified =E2=80=94 by proposing = and=20
discussing a modification on the mailing list, which is also a=20
fitting=C2=A0summary of how we decided last year to add more BIP Editor= s.

Additionally, the =E2=80=9CWorkflow > Transferring BIP Ownership=E2= =80=9D section makes=20
it clear that other Owners could step up to replace Authors that have= =20
become unreachable.

Pragmatically speaking, it seems obvious that the list of BIP Editors= =20
would be amended in the currently active BIP Process Specification=20
whenever the active BIP Editors change. Historically, this worked fine= =20
when Editors changed while BIP=E2=80=AF1 and BIP=E2=80=AF2 were active = which both also=20
specified the current BIP=E2=80=AFEditors in the same manner.

Thank you for your review. Please let me know, if you think we should= =20
amend BIP=E2=80=AF3 to more clearly state any of the above discussed th= oughts.

Best,
Murch

On 2025-11-12 11:03, Greg Sanders wrote:
> Hello Murch,
>
> I really like the BIP, just have a question about the editor porti= on.
>
> The list of current editors are currently in the BIP text, which s= eems=20
> to imply that the list can be changed by the author himself only a= nd=20
> would become "static" over time.
>
> Clearly support for changing has to continue as it goes to Deploye= d=20
> and beyond. Perhaps the text should be moved elsewhere?
>
> Best,
> Greg
>
> On Tuesday, November 4, 2025 at 8:11:39=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5 Murch wro= te:
>
> Dear list,
>
> After planned work on BIP=E2=80=AF3=E2=81=B0 finished in Febru= ary, BIP=E2=80=AF3 was
> advanced to
> Proposed in March 2025=C2=B9. A few minor adjustments were mad= e to BIP=E2=80=AF3
> since then (see below). I have since April maintained a pull r= equest
> that would activate BIP=E2=80=AF3: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1820<= /a>.
>
> At this point,=E2=80=AFBIP=E2=80=AF3 has received over 600 com= ments on GitHub and has
> been discussed in multiple threads on this list. The proposal = has
> been
> Proposed for over seven months, and while several minor improv= ements
> were proposed and processed, the proposal has no unaddressed
> objections
> stated here or on the activation pull request. A growing list = of
> people
> has expressed explicit support for activating BIP=E2=80=AF3 by= leaving an
> ACK on
> the pull request after reviewing the BIP:
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1820#= issue-2990155954
>
> I formally propose a motion to adopt BIP=E2=80=AF3 to replace = BIP=E2=80=AF2 as our
> BIPs
> Process.
>
> Since BIP=E2=80=AF2 doesn=E2=80=99t specify a procedure for ac= tivating Process
> BIPs, I
> suggest that people who wish to state their support leave an A= CK on
> #1820 or reply in this thread. Similarly, I would like to invi= te
> anyone
> to state concerns or raise objections here or on #1820.
> While BIP=E2=80=AF3 has long been proposed and the activation = PR has been
> open
> for over half a year, I suggest that we give all would-be revi= ewers
> another four weeks, until 2025-12-02, before evaluating whethe= r
> there is
> rough consensus for merging the activation pull request. This
> should be
> ample time to review and discuss BIP=E2=80=AF3 as well as the = activation PR,
> even for people that have so far not engaged with the material= .
>
> Best,
> Murch
>
> ----
>
> Summary of changes since BIP=E2=80=AF3 was advanced to Propose= d:
>
> - The License header now uses SPDX License Expressions=C2=B2
> - The License-Code header was dropped in favor of requiring th= at the
> license terms of the auxiliary files be specified in the respe= ctive
> directory or folder per a license header or LICENSE file=C2=B2
> - The =E2=80=9CCreated=E2=80=9D header has been renamed to =E2= =80=9CAssigned=E2=80=9D=C2=B3
> - The BIP text has been improved to clarify:
> =C2=A0 - the purpose of the BIPs repository=E2=81=B4
> =C2=A0 - that authors should establish viability of their prop= osal on the
> mailing list=E2=81=B4
> =C2=A0 - the distinction between publication, acceptance, and = adoption of
> proposals=E2=81=B4
> =C2=A0 - when Draft BIPs can be closed due to not making progr= ess=E2=81=B4
> =C2=A0 - that BIPs submissions may not be generated by AI/LLM= =E2=81=B5
>
> =E2=81=B0 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/mas= ter/bip-0003.md
> =C2=B9 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1794
> =C2=B2 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1892
> =C2=B3 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1970
> =E2=81=B4 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1819
> =E2=81=B5 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/2006
>
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= =20
> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, = send=20
> an email to bitcoindev+= ...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit=20
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/b= itcoindev/b1771bde-7fbc-4fa3-8151-9259c49f7c97n%40googlegroups.com=20
> <https://groups.google.= com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/b1771bde-7fbc-4fa3-8151-9259c49f7c97n%40googlegroups= .com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>.

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoind= ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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