From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Sun, 28 Dec 2025 06:59:50 -0800 Received: from mail-ot1-f60.google.com ([209.85.210.60]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1vZsFJ-0006Vr-I2 for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2025 06:59:50 -0800 Received: by mail-ot1-f60.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-7c6d329f19csf18190986a34.1 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2025 06:59:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1766933983; x=1767538783; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:x-original-sender :mime-version:subject:message-id:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Zeo7uDNWG4OHFsnSnPp4E+SLDeFeiLFPx6lVV8EEicE=; b=fCngQ38qlR7Yu1Faq0lC2uUVslFQvhcyjgAk0q8NEfE3FR7rc0cDyHngFRI65NbFuX O0NhqtDSJEh7dQNoifGQ6gVtwUA4UWMIE+5/2m34ynfQnDWZlMhZvqVDeJO1QCP7ELNy 5MMfHNUCUHVIS+Tu3q2faGKg20p2gZiKCBjfSE6O5ZDrlVY2ysm1uU56auiSG25xpesJ eoIVUu/JwnSol6+6mSlGYeEGOm/uBxmMLsF2srrZIaJW1VyqWq2EU0TIytOc0ZzwRsuA E9+kxIQOoRYowa0OEEvnNhBA0KJvxL7trlrpHro0QCh/GxEcQWLp/poBYaPNIpKAo0nc Lhbw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1766933983; x=1767538783; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:x-original-sender :mime-version:subject:message-id:to:from:date:x-beenthere :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Zeo7uDNWG4OHFsnSnPp4E+SLDeFeiLFPx6lVV8EEicE=; b=L5tPQ9yNMi65EYdsm6yIG4yP6YoDizYTManqKSCLnAAXtmCc2U2CGu61rqy6p73Ln6 QzYxdaNQAQetjpbUUQgIGbdoECBgi+noFWJ7I63zL1r7nEfhBufbARG7oZZHYNKnXonj hH4dGsC7xA+jFVSCBgs4YDSC+avTmns10Hx1nb+5Q7d99fRLafaJ9b61ih5pIKIz46qY CaUfXw8gmOX5xeIrE2G8td9YB9Q7HRLfFXB9ZA+EhBNuvxXxpTyHBsfsR+sWdAdM2hLc iUKa7o6apWNJrP3ErldFjOUYbj33/40yd05IGxpdRDfpk0dUuUCtVrG5iJKriEw8gtpV xBYw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVEFaa2/AmHVCrNhozHol2bAjQSxFCG8rnKkv445DGtEzRZx7ncAkCh/Uq3AiZkJZuoJLCRVcfGK5Df@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyZCN8ZSYOl+jAeSW/dwH96qWoTQlmVSl2LC3kzYgUslrIadEdE 60f4nXf9lx5sIHvg+YknyiKDxrLp5MAXVNnO17Of2CpVdZ8CBc3WFXdL X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGSpZBfqt34YccJhchcslrY6O+/VUzXhuTmH2qiCJk+Vowclum9/LIT6oSEzTautAsitLIsRg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6820:a01c:b0:659:9a49:9004 with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-65d0ea79d3cmr10579297eaf.49.1766933983198; Sun, 28 Dec 2025 06:59:43 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h="AWVwgWYqoypk/aND73GZLb8ASCjzULElNbXDWcQNXWNg9jqS2w==" Received: by 2002:a05:6870:17aa:b0:3d5:54c4:3245 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-3fe94eac459ls628579fac.2.-pod-prod-01-us; Sun, 28 Dec 2025 06:59:38 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:189e:b0:44f:8f02:cf5e with SMTP id 5614622812f47-457b1fff5a1mr12489593b6e.18.1766933978557; Sun, 28 Dec 2025 06:59:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 2002:a05:690c:a7d7:b0:78f:a657:960d with SMTP id 00721157ae682-78fb3b6605cms7b3; Sun, 28 Dec 2025 06:21:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:6187:b0:786:2f01:16fb with SMTP id 00721157ae682-78fb3f4a54cmr228253667b3.26.1766931709342; Sun, 28 Dec 2025 06:21:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2025 06:21:48 -0800 (PST) From: "'Oren' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Message-Id: <8fefdd9e-8c71-4e11-9d90-ebbd8e25dc56n@googlegroups.com> Subject: [bitcoindev] BIP idea: Timelock-Recovery storage format MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1215930_2112152429.1766931708968" X-Original-Sender: orenz0@protonmail.com X-Original-From: Oren Reply-To: Oren Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) ------=_Part_1215930_2112152429.1766931708968 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1215931_1179775115.1766931708968" ------=_Part_1215931_1179775115.1766931708968 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reposting here from BitcoinTalk=20 : After a short talk with Ava Chow during BTC++ Taiwan, I'm starting this=20 thread to discuss whether my idea is BIP-worthy. Motivation for Timelock-Recovery plans: Storing seeds for recovery & inheritance is scary. Pre-signed transactions to a secondary-wallet/custodian, are safer to=20 handle and backup due to their immutability. A single pre-signed transaction with a future nLocktime requires "renewal"= =20 when the nLocktime deadline is getting close, which could be annoying (i.e.= =20 if the seed is split over multiple geographic locations). Covenants/Vaults are still being debated, and could scare less-technical=20 Bitcoiners. Solution: Pre-signing a pair of transactions: =E2=80=A2 Alert/Initiate Transaction: A consolidation transaction that keep= s most=20 funds on the original wallet (except for a minimal amount that goes to=20 anchor-addresses, for CPFP acceleration) =E2=80=A2 Recovery Transaction: A transaction that moves the Bitcoin from t= he=20 consolidated UTXO to the secondary-wallet(s), with an nSequence=20 relative-locktime that gives the user enough time to move the funds=20 elsewhere (assuming they noticed that the Alert transaction was mined, and= =20 still have the seed or signed an alternative transaction in advance). Similar to a single pre-signed transaction with a future nLocktime,=20 Timelock-Recovery plans will not include new funds that are added to the=20 wallet, and will be revoked even if a tiny amount is spent. This mechanism= =20 is intended for wallets that are going to remain untouched for a long time. An example implementation can be found in the Timelock Recovery plugin that= =20 I've implemented for Electrum (merged since Electrum= =20 v4.6.0b1). Details and demo videos can be found at:=20 https://timelockrecovery.com. The plugin creates a UI for signing the two transactions, then saving them= =20 either in a PDF file (with detailed manual instructions for=20 less-technological Bitcoiners how to broadcast them), or in a *JSON format*= . The BIP will be about the JSON format, which includes not only the raw=20 transactions themselves, but also user-information (i.e. name, description,= =20 destination-labels, wallet-name, wallet-version), and data about the=20 transactions (i.e. txids, amounts, fees, input-utxos, anchor-addresses,=20 relative-locktime). A standard JSON format will allow implementing a compatible feature on=20 other wallets, as well as apps/servers for monitoring & initiating=20 timelock-recovery plans - such as the one being developed by RITREK.com=20 (disclosure: I'm one of RITREK's founders). Let me know what you think! Oren --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 8fefdd9e-8c71-4e11-9d90-ebbd8e25dc56n%40googlegroups.com. ------=_Part_1215931_1179775115.1766931708968 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reposting here from BitcoinTalk:

After a short talk with Ava = Chow during BTC++ Taiwan, I'm starting this thread to discuss whether my id= ea is BIP-worthy.

Motivation for Timelock-Recovery plans:
S= toring seeds for recovery & inheritance is scary.
Pre-signed trans= actions to a secondary-wallet/custodian, are safer to handle and backup due= to their immutability.
A single pre-signed transaction with a future = nLocktime requires "renewal" when the nLocktime deadline is getting close, which c= ould be annoying (i.e. if the seed is split over multiple geographic locati= ons).
Covenants/Vaults are still being debated, and could scare less-t= echnical Bitcoiners.

Solution:
Pre-signing a pair of transa= ctions:
=E2=80=A2 Alert/Initiate Transaction: A consolidation = transaction that keeps most funds on the original wallet (except for a mini= mal amount that goes to anchor-addresses, for CPFP acceleration)
=E2=80=A2 Recovery Transaction: A transaction that moves the Bitcoin fro= m the consolidated UTXO to the secondary-wallet(s), with an nSequence relative-locktime that gives the user enough t= ime to move the funds elsewhere (assuming they noticed that the Alert trans= action was mined, and still have the seed or signed an alternative transact= ion in advance).

Similar to a single pre-signed transaction with= a future nLocktime, Timelock-Recovery pl= ans will not include new funds that are added to the wallet, and will be re= voked even if a tiny amount is spent. This mechanism is intended for wallet= s that are going to remain untouched for a long time.

An example= implementation can be found in the Timelock Recovery plugin that I've impl= emented for Electrum (merged since Ele= ctrum v4.6.0b1). Details and demo videos can be found at: https://timelockrecovery.com.
The plugin c= reates a UI for signing the two transactions, then saving them either in a = PDF file (with detailed manual instructions for less-technological Bitcoine= rs how to broadcast them), or in a JSON format.

The BIP w= ill be about the JSON format, which includes not only the raw transactions = themselves, but also user-information (i.e. name, description, destination-= labels, wallet-name, wallet-version), and data about the transactions (i.e.= txids, amounts, fees, input-utxos, anchor-addresses, relative-locktime).A standard JSON format will allow implementing a compatible feature on = other wallets, as well as apps/servers for monitoring & initiating time= lock-recovery plans - such as the one being developed by RITREK.com (disclosure: I'm one of RITREK's founders).

Let me know what you think!

Oren

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoind= ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoind= ev/8fefdd9e-8c71-4e11-9d90-ebbd8e25dc56n%40googlegroups.com.
------=_Part_1215931_1179775115.1766931708968-- ------=_Part_1215930_2112152429.1766931708968--