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[192.3.11.21]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 006d021491bc7-6574d06d858si29465eaf.0.2025.11.15.14.01.47 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2025 14:01:47 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of luke@dashjr.org designates 192.3.11.21 as permitted sender) client-ip=192.3.11.21; Received: from [1.2.3.4] (redacted.redacted [1.2.3.4]) (Authenticated sender: mailrelay) by zinan.dashjr.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7521438A0239 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2025 22:01:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Hashcash: 1:23:251115:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com::+OhImTkMYaq2GP0g:v2s+ Message-ID: <9456f7d3-1a45-489a-81b8-bb8fdabb7a9b@dashjr.org> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2025 17:01:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Motion to Activate BIP 3 To: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com References: <205b3532-ccc1-4b2f-964f-264fc6e0e70b@murch.one> Content-Language: en-US, en-GB From: Luke Dashjr Autocrypt: addr=luke@dashjr.org; keydata= xjMEaFluDBYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdA8ciTLjjpcVVfd6BZLTGfceA0lWpJP52catbbacgToV3N Nkx1a2UgRGFzaGpyIChPcmRpbmFyeSBjb21tdW5pY2F0aW9uKSA8bHVrZUBkYXNoanIub3Jn PsKYBBMWCgBBFiEEX2gZzRn0MRDD65wKZ6lXXEKSsmwFAmhZbgwCGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkIBwIC IgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgcCF4AACgkQZ6lXXEKSsmwalwD3e5U8wZ627LZy3OGaga/H/EXe WIqAAwNY8W3C+droyAEAq/JO0xw4EDapLcU2H5Ep2fn5cEpr3LUiRREiQuCJygXOOARoWW4M EgorBgEEAZdVAQUBAQdARTl7PMQ4q8Oeq9nZNLC82YefoTeqaW1uuCKnVd0Iki8DAQgHwn4E GBYKACYWIQRfaBnNGfQxEMPrnApnqVdcQpKybAUCaFluDAIbDAUJAeEzgAAKCRBnqVdcQpKy bODeAP9+r1dX/Hwymn14laDxUP35Glh57T+750RGoz+mroHn/gEA6qKd0qxjJoxz8LUO6JPy Lx27XfEefvsgUzMbFaiMuAo= In-Reply-To: <205b3532-ccc1-4b2f-964f-264fc6e0e70b@murch.one> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Sender: luke@dashjr.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@dashjr.org header.s=zinan header.b=FRPmkbht; spf=pass (google.com: domain of luke@dashjr.org designates 192.3.11.21 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=luke@dashjr.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=dashjr.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) I have completed my review of the current BIP 3 proposal, and opened PR=20 #2037 to address these issues: * It misses that BIPs should be relevant to more than just one Bitcoin=20 project. * AI/LLM usage disclosure is too much. As long as no content is=20 LLM-generated, we should be fine. * Authors/Deputies assumes the champion (Author) was involved in writing=20 the document. This is a deviation from the current process where the=20 champion can be reassigned by editors if the current one is MIA. * Required sections lacks an actual content section (typically=20 Specification). * Reference Implementation is probably too specific with aux file or PR=20 requirement. One might conceive BIPs where the reference is an=20 independent/new software repository, for example. * Editors have always been able to assign numbers for their own BIPs -=20 that isn't considered self-assignment, and recent confusion in the=20 community suggests this should be clarified. * The requirement for public discussion/feedback/interest is new, and=20 inappropriate. While typically this may be the case, it should be=20 possible to put forward BIPs without relying on other contributors. * Test vectors may not be applicable to all specification BIPs. * "Compliant" is often the wrong term, as BIPs are recommendations.=20 "Compatible" seems more appropriate. * Avoid implying every BIP Editor must reply to every new idea sent to=20 the ML * The recent addition of "proposed by one of the authors [to the ML]" is=20 confusing and contradictory: it doesn't make sense to require the author=20 to have initiated the discussion himself, and the person who did may not=20 be interested in taking on the champion role (and may not be willing to=20 cooperate with submitting it and subsequently trasferring it) * The Rationale stated lowercase "bitcoin" is used to refer to units of=20 the currency, but no such reference is made, and instead it is only=20 incorrectly used lowercase. All instances have been corrected to=20 capitalized and the rationale entry removed. Additionally, I identified the following issues which may need further=20 discussion to address: * It may make sense to replace "Authors" with "Champions"? * "co-owned by the Bitcoin community" seems like a good idea abstractly,=20 but is under-defined and leaves too much to editors' interpretation * License-Code should probably be either retained or past BIPs folded=20 into the single License header. * Some BIPs have introduced number registries (eg, HD derivation paths);=20 it might be nice to provide some formal guidance in BIP 3 * The set of acceptable licenses is too restrictive, and contradicts=20 recommendation to use upstream license. (eg, AGPL) Not having been used=20 before is not a good reason in itself to prohibit usage. * Not all BIPs' Created dates are the dates of assignment. Are we going=20 to dig through history to see when precisely existing BIPs were assigned? * Why increase the Title length? * Rationale states the Layer is permitted for non-Specification BIPs,=20 but the "Changed from BIP 2" section plans to eliminate this reason for=20 doing so. * "When is a BIP "accepted"?" writes off BIP 2's Comments feature, but=20 ignores that BIP 2 also includes extensive explainations for determining=20 if a BIP has been accepted or not, which seem still largely applicable.=20 "Why are Process BIPs living documents?" similarly reduces that feature=20 to "especially with fork proposals in mind" which is also untrue. These=20 should probably get improved, even if BIP 3 doesn't mirror this feature. Luke On 11/4/25 20:10, Murch wrote: > Dear list, > > After planned work on BIP=E2=80=AF3=E2=81=B0 finished in February, BIP=E2= =80=AF3 was advanced=20 > to Proposed in March 2025=C2=B9. A few minor adjustments were made to BIP= =E2=80=AF3=20 > since then (see below). I have since April maintained a pull request=20 > that would activate BIP=E2=80=AF3: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1= 820. > > At this point,=E2=80=AFBIP=E2=80=AF3 has received over 600 comments on Gi= tHub and has=20 > been discussed in multiple threads on this list. The proposal has been=20 > Proposed for over seven months, and while several minor improvements=20 > were proposed and processed, the proposal has no unaddressed=20 > objections stated here or on the activation pull request. A growing=20 > list of people has expressed explicit support for activating BIP=E2=80=AF= 3 by=20 > leaving an ACK on the pull request after reviewing the BIP:=20 > https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1820#issue-2990155954 > > I formally propose a motion to adopt BIP=E2=80=AF3 to replace BIP=E2=80= =AF2 as our=20 > BIPs Process. > > Since BIP=E2=80=AF2 doesn=E2=80=99t specify a procedure for activating Pr= ocess BIPs, I=20 > suggest that people who wish to state their support leave an ACK on=20 > #1820 or reply in this thread. Similarly, I would like to invite=20 > anyone to state concerns or raise objections here or on #1820. > While BIP=E2=80=AF3 has long been proposed and the activation PR has been= open=20 > for over half a year, I suggest that we give all would-be reviewers=20 > another four weeks, until 2025-12-02, before evaluating whether there=20 > is rough consensus for merging the activation pull request. This=20 > should be ample time to review and discuss BIP=E2=80=AF3 as well as the= =20 > activation PR, even for people that have so far not engaged with the=20 > material. > > Best, > Murch > > ---- > > Summary of changes since BIP=E2=80=AF3 was advanced to Proposed: > > - The License header now uses SPDX License Expressions=C2=B2 > - The License-Code header was dropped in favor of requiring that the=20 > license terms of the auxiliary files be specified in the respective=20 > directory or folder per a license header or LICENSE file=C2=B2 > - The =E2=80=9CCreated=E2=80=9D header has been renamed to =E2=80=9CAssig= ned=E2=80=9D=C2=B3 > - The BIP text has been improved to clarify: > =C2=A0 - the purpose of the BIPs repository=E2=81=B4 > =C2=A0 - that authors should establish viability of their proposal on the= =20 > mailing list=E2=81=B4 > =C2=A0 - the distinction between publication, acceptance, and adoption of= =20 > proposals=E2=81=B4 > =C2=A0 - when Draft BIPs can be closed due to not making progress=E2=81= =B4 > =C2=A0 - that BIPs submissions may not be generated by AI/LLM=E2=81=B5 > > =E2=81=B0 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0003.md > =C2=B9 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1794 > =C2=B2 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1892 > =C2=B3 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1970 > =E2=81=B4 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1819 > =E2=81=B5 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/2006 > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 9456f7d3-1a45-489a-81b8-bb8fdabb7a9b%40dashjr.org.