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[109.224.244.28]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d75a77b69052e-50684afc050si4796241cf.6.2026.02.16.20.13.50 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 16 Feb 2026 20:13:50 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of conduition@proton.me designates 109.224.244.28 as permitted sender) client-ip=109.224.244.28; Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2026 04:13:44 +0000 To: Erik Aronesty From: "'conduition' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" Cc: Ethan Heilman , Jonas Nick , bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Algorithm Agility for Bitcoin to maintain security in the face of quantum and classic breaks in the signature algorithms Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Feedback-ID: 72003692:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 7cc6f453bf65c634e4c378a76754e89fd6c05339 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="------0c98e6ae9a424bb517377fddbc5b0871cfb9b0441de1c0f21ad653a52ec35195"; charset=utf-8 X-Original-Sender: conduition@proton.me X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@proton.me header.s=z2pm4ntgjbejvo6nsgtpkxx3cm.protonmail header.b=cdhVSHzD; spf=pass (google.com: domain of conduition@proton.me designates 109.224.244.28 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=conduition@proton.me; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=proton.me X-Original-From: conduition Reply-To: conduition Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------0c98e6ae9a424bb517377fddbc5b0871cfb9b0441de1c0f21ad653a52ec35195 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary=---------------------4f7adc118ee88faa149ceeb0274649be -----------------------4f7adc118ee88faa149ceeb0274649be Content-Type: multipart/alternative;boundary=---------------------ff0c1c086c9bf673a15aaadbab33e7ad -----------------------ff0c1c086c9bf673a15aaadbab33e7ad Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi list, just wanted to pipe in on the subject of commit/reveal using OP_TX= HASH. I don't think it is possible. The protocol link Erik posted ( https:/= /delvingbitcoin.org/t/a-quantum-resistance-script-only-using-op-ctv-op-txha= sh-and-no-new-signatures/2168 ) seems to contradict itself. On one hand the= author says phase zero doesn't commit to final CTV templates E & T. Howeve= r it also says T & E are committed to via the P_anchor tapscript tree, whic= h must be pinned by phase 0. So unless I'm misunderstanding, this technique= seems to require a priori knowledge of template hashes T and E when creati= ng the funding address and UTXO in phase 0, so this would not be viable as = a PQ fallback spending path. Happy to be proven wrong. regards, conduition On Wednesday, February 11th, 2026 at 1:06 AM, Erik Aronesty = wrote: > >=20 > >=20 > > You'd still need BIP 360 P2MR (or P2TRD) since OP_TXHASH needs tapscrip= t, and the only available tapscript supporting output type, P2TR, isn't qua= ntum safe. >=20 >=20 > false, covenant based multistep secret-reveal spending paths don't rely o= n signatures at all >=20 > >=20 > > I'm going to assume: > > - you mean to use this commit-reveal for migrating between signature al= gorithms, not for everyday use, >=20 >=20 > it can be used if "q day" happens. otherwise ignored. >=20 > > - TXHASH is being used because you are waiting for the commitment to be= confirmed on-chain rather than lifeboat's out-of-band commitment system >=20 >=20 > it's used so you can commit to a spending constraint without committing t= o the final "as yet to be determined" quantum-safe destination: https://del= vingbitcoin.org/t/a-quantum-resistance-script-only-using-op-ctv-op-txhash-a= nd-no-new-signatures/2168 >=20 > > Once you post your commit-txn, but before it confirms, other parties ca= n post competing commit-txns that double spend your output. If one of malic= ious transactions confirm, you must now wait for a timelock to expire and t= hen try to post your transaction. >=20 >=20 > agreed. they have to spend resources to attack your private key and the o= nly thing they can do is "grief" using a timing attack with the results, ra= ther than steal outright. a massive incentive difference. >=20 > > They can block you again. Each time they burn some of you coins in fees= . Miners get the fees, so they might be incentivized to do this. Thus, we m= ust trust miners not to do this. Lifeboat doesn't have this issue since it = uses out-of-band commitments, but out-of-band commitments have their own is= sues. >=20 >=20 > each time you use the reset-path, they have to re-attack a new key. very = expensive just to grief a small amount of fees spread across all miners. so= unds like science-fiction levels of compute. >=20 > plus.... TX_HASH is simple and generally useful and there is no guarantee= that q-day will even come >=20 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoinde= v/CAJowKgL5okUA%3DDHSyUJfzdb6p_z5a6H_hN6NuhZo6R9ZYbJFUQ%40mail.gmail.com. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= ByJc1I7sSQAMLnAzSHPi8KSSscU0qakPM2YI0qC6VBBOwzmYtQEW5NY6d80eLUCf7fmKxbdFlSu= xm4RCoT5rtKT68Khdi2xjwYIu4B5e6BQ%3D%40proton.me. -----------------------ff0c1c086c9bf673a15aaadbab33e7ad Content-Type: multipart/related;boundary=---------------------e1e160c95d1528a323840bfb430a3d24 -----------------------e1e160c95d1528a323840bfb430a3d24 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi list, just wanted to pip= e in on the subject of commit/reveal using OP_TXHASH. I don't think it is p= ossible. The protocol link Erik posted ( https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/a-quantum-resistance-script-only-using-op-ctv= -op-txhash-and-no-new-signatures/2168 ) seems to contradict itse= lf. On one hand the author says phase zero doesn't commit to final CTV temp= lates E & T. However it also says T & E are committed to via the P_= anchor tapscript tree, which must be pinned by phase 0. So unless I'm misun= derstanding, this technique seems to require a priori knowledge of template= hashes T and E when creating the funding address and UTXO in phase 0, so t= his would not be viable as a PQ fallback spending path. Happy to be proven = wrong.

<= div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0,= 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">regards,
conduition



On Wednesday, February 11th, 2026 at 1:06 AM, Erik Aronesty <eri= k@q32.com> wrote:

<= br>You'd still need=20 BIP 360 P2MR (or P2TRD) since OP_TXHASH needs tapscript, and the only avail= able tapscript supporting output type, P2TR, isn't quantum safe.
<= /blockquote>

false, covenant based multistep secret-reve= al spending paths don't rely on signatures at all

I'm going to assume= :
- you mean to use this commit-reveal for migrating between signature = algorithms, not for everyday use,

it can be used if "q day" happens. otherwise ignored.
- TXHASH is being= used because you are waiting for the commitment to be confirmed on-chain r= ather than lifeboat's out-of-band commitment system
<= div>
it's used so you can commit to a spending constraint wit= hout committing to the final "as yet to be determined" quantum-safe destina= tion: https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/a-quantum-= resistance-script-only-using-op-ctv-op-txhash-and-no-new-signatures/2168
<= div dir=3D"ltr">
Once you post your commit-txn, but before it confirms,= other parties can post competing commit-txns that double spend your output= . If one of malicious transactions confirm, you must now wait for a timeloc= k to expire and then try to post your transaction.

agreed. they have to spend resources to attack your private key a= nd the only thing they can do is "grief" using a timing attack with the res= ults, rather than steal outright. a massive incentive difference.
They can b= lock you again. Each time they burn some of you coins in fees. Miners get t= he fees, so they might be incentivized to do this. Thus, we must trust mine= rs not to do this. Lifeboat doesn't have this issue since it uses out-of-ba= nd commitments, but out-of-band commitments have their own issues.

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