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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::e32]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 956f58d0204a3-64ef6c34822si193091d50.6.2026.03.27.12.05.34 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 27 Mar 2026 12:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of christophera@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e32 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::e32; Received: by mail-vs1-xe32.google.com with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-604dfcc9892so1496628137.1 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2026 12:05:34 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1774638334; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=EJV3RiwJiZVsRz65WdGeuW6Tgg64U6BaIojOxLePAkBOeWgmKIAPOfSebF8hr3pEt/ 6DslZzEFHV2Omr4RblPYqatOeXTpd8FPkfE+aiEnqAc63JZ9/v7t6qREEyjDSRWPuZWd +0CfuOG1BGUKY1v2JV6EP/0D+qg4Yn/gyquhRBqyJlka9DyXLIlPVLrEFzSfhokHL44Q dKcE1EeH1j09BV0kjyGnZPkvtg4iNo8nJjZl/LyR87RdZc1cKkFO5tAJVORD0imZfusE ml3n5+G+e6kPoRm8aMMFPPOOD3iLiB1x24kWU49yqSbVUCJSnoc9T+AjwkUZEB51FWwu cZvQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=KYnz2N4o9pOAYkWIaYpAwaWB6G6pn9iSYbye3lhIdaI=; fh=nPuU9NRhNMfS3QXE3CdT4cpsVJ28CC/PWY2coh8kAvg=; b=lvzREnsVn19VdQLk81XW3AcC7UqJxXuNbtJenG9Rep/euLBTsrirJoIb6NJbIIBvPK N+5NS5+voJwMLEHDX+FZ2EW+O5WGMBxCMImY5NiBENd53mUqNVtCSGpia2ISdDW5789b p3hb+si3pCUYiaQiAmEO7nBN0WKYIQaJT5kNyIND4QZXG7Na4yvKupvD8qdhkh0lPSud J/5yT/vaGikm8FsC7Rz5uDrU2wtPLduWBZiCQwRTPx1hvW0sJ5vYzS60cTPB4rKuMXox VxkQov8tsUZeaUAqP0mS//WZ7Fa7/NqEAFwbmZJbUb8P3gfme/mN2TD0j7G+I7RyL4gm Sd6w==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none X-Gm-Gg: ATEYQzwbjhRiY6qmwr6kXWmzn6L6OBVc+pnCMfYg4NLx326eoEp6CWNekGzfl7soOFH y/qliv4k2ahRknWydsbwF1fqjYQDc3mjO1I+VQzmoI9dEFm4hwqmr9rcp3AwvsdX/8u+Y76A+gV x0NWD9I4bQONFJbCu/OUbqdWuqM/c1yQ0SSbwoFWxHCtpnVnR2rYQRsuzdG3HTtQEuQYhQEyVTg MxKmNkim1XcaBmOBpu0wOd7F8BO5WwAm2CfEP1KDPcEGJWKsgZftNC67/xlGWMqTccw8b5KOi0g Yzg9vMnQz6TYPBTn2sVsqvKWfl5B4tyGSgN5DrTjTQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:6cb:b0:5ff:c64d:2283 with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-604f92a31e3mr1973622137.30.1774638334268; Fri, 27 Mar 2026 12:05:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <28c7570dc6f833551780c7ea0773ad33cd5a966d.camel@pythcoiner.dev> In-Reply-To: <28c7570dc6f833551780c7ea0773ad33cd5a966d.camel@pythcoiner.dev> From: Christopher Allen Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2026 12:04:55 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AQROBzDtqzZ8Xc7HHoK9JaAy-jpfjIZuZPpmzM9iOirIJnd_ELdJV0ZaY4Rhjz8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [BIP Draft] Wallet Backup Metadata Format To: pyth Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000084dca0064e062f17" X-Original-Sender: christophera@lifewithalacrity.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@lifewithalacrity-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.s=20230601 header.b=XcziVRrA; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of christophera@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e32 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=christophera@gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --00000000000084dca0064e062f17 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When Zcash needed to deprecate its old bitcoind-based wallet, the Zcash ecosystem commissioned us to create tools to parse all of (old) bitcoind=E2= =80=99s structures. This enabled all wallets in the ecosystem to recover all private data (Zcash has more data than Bitcoin). The Zcash community also wanted to enable all wallets to have some common ability to export all fundamental wallet data to preserve choice and prevent vendor lock-in. I have an article on the topic, =E2=80=9CInterop: What Is It Good For?=E2= =80=9D that details the project: https://www.blockchaincommons.com/musings/musings-interop/ In it I say: > This isn=E2=80=99t Blockchain Commons=E2=80=99 first rodeo. Creating inte= roperability has been Blockchain Commons=E2=80=99 goal since the start, and we=E2=80=99ve do= ne most of our interop work to date with Bitcoin. Our two biggest successes for Bitcoin have been Animated QRs and SSKR . Animated QRs are a standardized way to move large files across airgaps. That=E2=80=99s the exa= ct sort of intercommunication that has always required interoperability. SSKR is a standardized way to shard a secret, currently focused on Shamir=E2=80=99s S= ecret Sharing. Because it isn=E2=80=99t just about intercommunication, getting a = variety of companies to use it was a bigger victory, because it ensures those secrets will remain accessible and resilient into the far future. Both technologies are integrated with our Uniform Resources , which have been implemented by more than a dozen companies , offering true interoperability. But these successes have unfortunately been piecemeal. There=E2=80=99s just= one company that I=E2=80=99m aware of that=E2=80=99s adopted a pretty wide swat= h of Blockchain Commons=E2=80=99 Gordian specifications, and that=E2=80=99s our long-time s= ponsor, Foundation Devices . We most recently worked with them to support QuantumLink , a Post-Quantum-Cryptopgraphy (PQC) method of Bluetooth communication that=E2= =80=99s in their new Passport Prime device , but they=E2=80=99ve also impl= emented URs, Animated QRs, SSKR, and other Blockchain Commons interop specs. As a result, they=E2=80=99ve got well-studied, mature specifications that they d= idn=E2=80=99t roll themselves and that should be resilient and reliable far into the future. I think that adding in a variety of linked interop specs like this has a multiplicative effect. I=E2=80=99d love to see more of this in the Bitcoin community, but a lot of= people are resistant. ... The primary reason that we see people fight interoperability is market dominance. The Bitcoin ecosystem has grown large enough that some of the bigger players have stepped back from interoperability. ... But I think the recent release of Ledger Recover was even more of a tragedy. Here they were offering a big innovation: a way to recover seeds by splitting them up and distributing them off device, similar to Blockchain Commons=E2=80=99 own Collaborative Seed Recovery (CSR). But by k= eeping their protocol for distributing and recovering seed shares non-interoperable, they kept anyone else from offering seed vaults of their own, instead locking their users into their choices=E2=80=94which were very unpopular due to privacy-busting requirements for KYC information. The exact opposite approach is taken by another of Blockchain Commons=E2=80= =99 long-time developer partners, Craig Raw of the Sparrow wallet. He=E2=80=99s= working hard to make Sparrow compatible with everything out there, but the difficulty he faces underlines the issues with the semi-interoperable state of bitcoin. He has to make NASCAR-like lists of otherwise incompatible products and introduce secret sauce to interoperate with each of them. We=E2=80=99re very luck to have the Sparrow wallet working with all of thes= e different devices, but it=E2=80=99s something that would never happen if th= ere weren=E2=80=99t someone as dedicated as Craig working on the project. In any case, we have three open source repositories associated with ZeWIF -- in particular, if you are trying to parse old bitcoind, you might find some useful code there. https://github.com/search?q=3Dorg%3ABlockchainCommons+zewif&type=3Dreposito= ries I'd love to see financial support from the Bitcoin community to enable us to work with more wallet vendors and together be able to do better in the Bitcoin ecosystem. But at this point, we can't do it given the current state of financial support in Bitcoin today (slow, insufficient, or partial), thus we cannot proceed at alone this point. -- Christopher Allen On Fri, Mar 27, 2026 at 4:38=E2=80=AFAM pyth wrote: > Hi all, > While implementing the backup format for Liana last year, I ran into > the lack of any real specification for a proper wallet backup format. > > Because of that, I wrote a BIP draft for a structured wallet backup > format. > > Several wallet implementations have already signaled interest in > something like this. > > Draft PR: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/2130 > > Feedback welcome on the structure, fields, or anything else. > > Thanks, > Pyth > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/28c7570dc6f833551780c7ea0773= ad33cd5a966d.camel%40pythcoiner.dev > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CACrqygAGiX9R3Fw%2Bb7cD81_6Cov%3Dj2CCPZbKGFBcywv9xs4SbA%40mail.gmail.com. --00000000000084dca0064e062f17 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
When Zcash needed to deprecate its = old bitcoind-based wallet, the Zcash ecosystem commissioned us to create to= ols to parse all of (old) bitcoind=E2=80=99s structures. This enabled all w= allets in the ecosystem to recover all private data (Zcash has more data th= an Bitcoin). The Zcash community also wanted to enable all wallets to have = some common ability to export all fundamental wallet data to preserve choic= e and prevent vendor lock-in.

I have an article on the topic, =E2=80=9CInterop: What Is It Good For= ?=E2=80=9D that details the project:
=
In it I say:
<= div style=3D"font-size:inherit" dir=3D"auto">

> This isn=E2=80=99t Blockchain= Commons=E2=80=99 first rodeo. Creating interoperability has been Blockchai= n Commons=E2=80=99 goal since the start, and we=E2=80=99ve done most of our= interop work to date with Bitcoin.

Our two biggest= successes for Bitcoin have been=C2=A0Ani= mated QRs=C2=A0and=C2=A0SSKR. Animated QRs are a standardized way = to move large files across airgaps. That=E2=80=99s the exact sort of interc= ommunication that has always required interoperability. SSKR is a standardi= zed way to shard a secret, currently focused on Shamir=E2=80=99s Secret Sha= ring. Because it isn=E2=80=99t just about intercommunication, getting a var= iety of companies to use it was a bigger victory, because it ensures those = secrets will remain accessible and resilient into the far future. Both tech= nologies are integrated with our=C2=A0Uniform Resources, which have been= implemented by=C2=A0more than a dozen companies, offeri= ng true interoperability.

<= font face=3D"arial, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000">But these successes have = unfortunately been piecemeal. There=E2=80=99s just one company that I=E2=80= =99m aware of that=E2=80=99s adopted a pretty wide swath of Blockchain Comm= ons=E2=80=99 Gordian specifications, and that=E2=80=99s our long-time spons= or,=C2=A0Foundation Devices. We most recently worked with them to s= upport=C2=A0QuantumLink, a Post-Quantum-Cryptopgraphy (PQC) metho= d of Bluetooth communication that=E2=80=99s in their new=C2=A0Passport Prime = device, but they=E2=80=99ve also implemented URs, Animated QRs, SSKR, a= nd other Blockchain Commons interop specs. As a result, they=E2=80=99ve got= well-studied, mature specifications that they didn=E2=80=99t roll themselv= es and that should be resilient and reliable far into the future. I think t= hat adding in a variety of linked interop specs like this has a multiplicat= ive effect.

I=E2=80=99d love to see more of this in the Bitcoin co= mmunity, but a lot of people are resistant.

...

The primary reason= that we see people fight interoperability is market dominance. The Bitcoin= ecosystem has grown large enough that some of the bigger players have step= ped back from interoperability.
=

...

But I think the recent release of Ledger= Recover was even more of a tragedy. Here they were offering a big innovati= on: a way to recover seeds by splitting them up and distributing them off d= evice, similar to Blockchain Commons=E2=80=99 own Collaborative Seed Recove= ry (CSR). But by keeping their protocol for distributing and recovering see= d shares non-interoperable, they kept anyone else from offering seed vaults= of their own, instead locking their users into their choices=E2=80=94which= were very unpopular due to privacy-busting requirements for KYC informatio= n.

The exact opposite approach is taken by another of Blockchain Com= mons=E2=80=99 long-time developer partners, Craig Raw of the Sparrow wallet= . He=E2=80=99s working hard to make Sparrow compatible with everything out = there, but the difficulty he faces underlines the issues with the semi-inte= roperable state of bitcoin. He has to make NASCAR-like lists of otherwise i= ncompatible products and introduce secret sauce to interoperate with each o= f them. We=E2=80=99re very luck to have the Sparrow wallet working with all= of these different devices, but it=E2=80=99s something that would never ha= ppen if there weren=E2=80=99t someone as dedicated as Craig working on the = project.


In any case, we have three open source = repositories associated with ZeWIF -- in particular, if you are trying to p= arse old bitcoind, you might find some useful code there.=C2=A0https://github.com/search?q=3Dorg%3ABlockchainCommons+zewif&ty= pe=3Drepositories

I'd love to see financial support from the = Bitcoin community to enable us to work with more wallet vendors and togethe= r be able to do better in the Bitcoin ecosystem. But at this point, we can&= #39;t do it given the current state of financial support in Bitcoin today (= slow, insufficient, or partial), thus we cannot proceed at alone this point= .=C2=A0

-- Christopher Allen


On Fri, Mar 27, 2026 at 4:38=E2=80=AFAM p= yth <pyth@pythc= oiner.dev> wrote:
Hi all,
While implementing the backup format for Liana last year, I ran into
the lack of any real specification for a proper wallet backup format.

Because of that, I wrote a BIP draft for a structured wallet backup
format.

Several wallet implementations have already signaled interest in
something like this.

Draft PR: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/2130

Feedback welcome on the structure, fields, or anything else.

Thanks,
Pyth

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