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[2a00:1450:4864:20::229]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-65bad606e2esi351585a12.6.2026.02.16.14.03.14 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 16 Feb 2026 14:03:14 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jameson.lopp@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::229 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::229; Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-3870dec27f4so28502281fa.1 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2026 14:03:14 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1771279394; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=IZ5Wjgk1Jhz3koLxpHFiHN7MWFV1UQz5Hr6xAgTIMcuQor942Q37oBD7kw8PIASxuf TurAS/Ok5zYxOnTAX6aaMNQj8TeeUT0EFHaKO9oJqOx9q0u6JBlAn/T09pfcbTyN4k4t 4uNktvtiPc4u+U9TESiqKQx+aONVUn93xf0Gnx7zew8sTYaor9irqnVAT33EpSiS9LH4 272IA3kt8RksSyz3aaPfmzjzGRzSwlT3NnA8adEx/NucdPx1c7+LrpLVbj7dREhjZbtP kDU6S7EPiCKRp4R+y7uNp8ff+bwTs19MUNkweL0mXy4ByM8engmrEDbcAL/62/RCb+p4 B6PA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=IxQObMesSZ1mJQVfHA5qH+jmxYxbhMlS0K68FixLFPE=; fh=yqPa6DsFGpb4Mbwe0juFQ7VGAQVHWOmLFCyjtGfccmg=; b=LIwcokbPXQmNPdTzy7HmWsrBMdKENLgAN3xWwv+1DP8yr242Tgxp5cWAEzMI0IWzMn MvLuBk4QSFlorAqgAHomUAMOK7ClxCblIv8AKxVfN8syp+h8FDVV4eQv3wqlJrVC7FGy DNNBu1gaGxWB/Id0PTlh4of9RYLXipLmARbXcnw7LpoumkzTG+QjoJEZIT7tVKnaE0EZ jW0memeinDXg7HBUNvbVdVtFH8f5Y6efEuPOXAnW/NBn6zhOsuK6vf/YILE5b/Kc4zQF k3Gzr2C0Uat1by6XfGh3KxeYceF7ST4wJeh4JZkFkpZ+tKgCrja3vkU25SYKjusSbT5Y +UMQ==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none X-Gm-Gg: AZuq6aJ85VnCTiFBCV3KvFNS27Zz1hKWEv52JFzUW5c+1p5U6h0v1KZ7HmSxo5k75CQ zmzu6RHlziuLIOeFZE5kww/C8OJRt7GR+T9kjt6tybw74spEEwwO6vz7H/I7j3snQYOzZXZMuxI wT7PeWxLxsgiNW1ZP7D7mzy+gFAsBjsIonpiqH5vZRC1IJKNejaFkrcuiiDCILUhaKLXTdZ6M2C 28YIGWaieLTX5SbBW3WtN9smX3vCRxVaxT0q/IADWAg0GZCPPWouvfyrZMsCWCQvS7Xu8JxRKVF xF6AiVGseBkP+Wr7lQrJy3kotpNf9IT+JqLRLWg0rTtnsq7UifQNyPiNOPGu+MCcItGdHu5zKQw i8TGsIj0nFoxZcT9MBRnGzdRFZ6kSfVWh5/x7twj3d4LM6r4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:31c3:b0:385:f202:a787 with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-38819ca2c81mr31391301fa.9.1771279393737; Mon, 16 Feb 2026 14:03:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9336f5a4-5c28-4c1b-af29-a8462b7a9377n@googlegroups.com> <57bd09bc-1c1b-4605-82f9-65b6b61cf8a2@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <57bd09bc-1c1b-4605-82f9-65b6b61cf8a2@app.fastmail.com> From: Jameson Lopp Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2026 17:03:00 -0500 X-Gm-Features: AaiRm52goqemWvnToYDVNEZx88VQdEyYSyyoBT0jExMo6JYj3MeiEJrBLhEMe9s Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Hourglass V2 Update To: Light Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000fcf8e064af81fbe" X-Original-Sender: jameson.lopp@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=BAqBf2V2; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of jameson.lopp@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::229 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jameson.lopp@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --0000000000000fcf8e064af81fbe Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bitcoin is ultimately a system of rules that are enforced by those who use the system and hold the keys to spend UTXOs. As such, if a sufficiently large cohort of economic power within the system is interested in protecting itself against massive liquidation events from malicious actors who arguably are not the rightful owners of UTXOs, the incentives are in place for them to do something about it. I like Hourglass V2 a lot more than V1. My primary complaint is that 1 BTC per block is somewhat arbitrary. It would be interesting to point to the on-chain statistics of what P2PK UTXO spend volume we have seen in recent years. Additionally, in the context of my own migration BIP, Hourglass V2 could be complementary to the concept of offering a ZK quantum safe spending option for folks who fail to migrate UTXOs to quantum safe scripts before a set deadline, given that these old P2PK outputs do not belong to HD wallets and thus the owners would be incapable of constructing a ZK proof of HD wallet ownership. On Fri, Feb 13, 2026 at 5:12=E2=80=AFPM Light wrot= e: > Bitcoin should not have an in-protocol plunge protection mechanism, and > certainly not one that artificially restricts people's ability to spend > their coins. I encourage you to withdraw this proposal, for the sake of > bitcoin's integrity and utility as a p2p electronic cash system. > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2026, at 3:47 PM, Mike Casey wrote: > > In response to feedback, the Hourglass proposal to mitigate against > > potential mass liquidation of P2PK funds has been enhanced to further > > limit spend amounts from such outputs to only 1 bitcoin per block. > > > https://github.com/cryptoquick/bips/blob/hourglass-v2/bip-hourglass-v2.me= diawiki > > > > Prior discussion of the original Hourglass proposal: > > https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/zmg3U117aNc/m/lDCMs9j7EAAJ > > > > Thoughts & feedback welcome! > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion visit > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/9336f5a4-5c28-4c1b-af29-a846= 2b7a9377n%40googlegroups.com > > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/9336f5a4-5c28-4c1b-af29-a846= 2b7a9377n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter > >. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/57bd09bc-1c1b-4605-82f9-65b6= b61cf8a2%40app.fastmail.com > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CADL_X_eb8byZs3VKORoUzaPoBvguSbxJ%3DKyKifsQFWFqyqHeRA%40mail.gmail.com. --0000000000000fcf8e064af81fbe Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bitcoin is ultimately a system of rules that are enforced = by those who use the system and hold the keys to spend UTXOs. As such, if a= sufficiently large cohort of economic power within the system is intereste= d in protecting itself against massive liquidation events from malicious ac= tors who arguably are not the rightful owners of UTXOs, the incentives are = in place for them to do something about it.

I like Hourg= lass V2 a lot more than V1. My primary complaint is that 1 BTC per block is= somewhat arbitrary. It would be interesting to point to the on-chain stati= stics of what P2PK UTXO spend volume we have seen in recent years.

A= dditionally, in the context of my own migration BIP, Hourglass V2 could be = complementary to the concept of offering a ZK quantum safe spending option = for folks who fail to migrate UTXOs to quantum safe scripts before a set de= adline, given that these old P2PK outputs do not belong to HD wallets and t= hus the owners would be incapable of constructing a ZK proof of HD wallet o= wnership.

<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 13, 2026 at 5:12=E2=80=AFP= M Light <bitcoin-dev@lightco.i= n> wrote:
Bitcoin should not have an in-protocol plunge protection mechanism, and ce= rtainly not one that artificially restricts people's ability to spend t= heir coins. I encourage you to withdraw this proposal, for the sake of bitc= oin's integrity and utility as a p2p electronic cash system.

On Tue, Feb 10, 2026, at 3:47 PM, Mike Casey wrote:
> In response to feedback, the Hourglass proposal to mitigate against > potential mass liquidation of P2PK funds has been enhanced to further =
> limit spend amounts from such outputs to only 1 bitcoin per block.
> https://github.= com/cryptoquick/bips/blob/hourglass-v2/bip-hourglass-v2.mediawiki
>
> Prior discussion of the original Hourglass proposal:
> https://groups.google.com/g/= bitcoindev/c/zmg3U117aNc/m/lDCMs9j7EAAJ
>
> Thoughts & feedback welcome!
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send=
> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/9336f5a4-5c28-4c1b-af29-= a8462b7a9377n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.= com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/9336f5a4-5c28-4c1b-af29-a8462b7a9377n%40googlegroups= .com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>.

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