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[2a00:1450:4864:20::643]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 38308e7fff4ca-38e49a4a61fsi3161931fa.4.2026.04.14.11.18.01 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Apr 2026 11:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of aaron.recompile@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::643 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::643; Received: by mail-ej1-x643.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b936331786dso692119666b.3 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2026 11:18:01 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1776190681; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=U6jWAUza6JcaryxKIW7u0ncLAngLEytooeAOdeCFgak31vXJ81CEqSMJFzde51oxIn YbEL6hW/DCfXMpINIqDRRixvzYVMSrVwbPVKdGe23CxNEGi1BBuFGM0CQem5kzE1Et1j JTQuFAoc+oXunjfPUTlA0hYVD4UZkkF/40AQjEMPPd6XYswf6rPoPbgj/Zh6xlHvSj9j Q5nQ29dPPaPKkfFWqiddvCv9RqkXCH50FeZVqKATcRbJ5m6L7His7Gs0XIlJwxLgjLeL iEgkr0YWgAWiqJRnWmPMscOvzNR/Lrnw/ap08iA+T2vesusegpiQhyfXIB/Wg76PzRU1 AA7Q== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=QQ+7eWSgI1GY3CAAzgpUiQ/zZgbl6czoYQ3Zekn77kU=; fh=sjkP8zjFS5lFlY+fNUHD47XPXx06dShKmNgWs4F+if8=; b=ZpajWgkOFRFU3quJyzrS75l85R8wzsWtMLnkLD4Pc946/oTJJEiLCmzWT8WhSBfklg FLxiTULlvtsLy8m5YBKasWmeIUa+kBVAOylRb+tL1yt2wezj5nksn4uK0QXJ3qdYZ8pk Uy7RkmF2ITbEfdGVjimSfF0T9fwNlHk/j672oLe8ykNw4W+V9ZO3ofvdwzKuFySepqlM U+vfBe4nFwdpfZ9RlcjAuGE1QF23mmuHbp1ZzgpS4FcvFXWbQPWolU/cFpVUImiDGUCw XKUvANmK5FTulxSANdecky+xUt3RSCNfj/ZguqEqSInSxGgbGKLLwmGElZGEJuMpbETa C7kQ==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none X-Gm-Gg: AeBDietMyNe9SHgzwI+0dcPo5qvnY9rPpF5AtqGqZTJPGC00tQVfBVCPqdBInHgz11p FOUL6cd1TkQ1zIlhSI0WyOtuNvqPFJB7RmpxjeM1D0YmNXM/n9cIwtsihGd6dtcfqTuL96F/NOk HJ6aMgSvjAs3U2VfcbB50ugIVCmEELtcqZWGbnvK7714EWJL2UfqfIYWGUeNILiI/quwH/pzWCR ciFu/HJLZKJ8TKNHb/mF/U/e1EJCzl0MWSi/nUcoj73zmcw9ulQqW/sxyp9nUAijEmaDQkgfAu/ AoeI//K9B8Ua1WParx1yAXB0MMuRZR6Pjw5GdeYVYZNpYqzcUg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:e894:b0:b9c:a104:9755 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b9d727ce9e6mr914025966b.35.1776190680798; Tue, 14 Apr 2026 11:18:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <494c0600-2daa-4500-8e49-bf36efbf2625n@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <494c0600-2daa-4500-8e49-bf36efbf2625n@googlegroups.com> From: "aaron.recompile" Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2026 11:17:49 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AQROBzDLDs5EauJehqVnH8_2Qr4ydU_m5V1KFE86RT0uTqwpal4ka0Par7A7Iv4 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Subject: Eltoo / LN-Symmetry on Inquisition Signet: BIP 118 + 3-Round State Chain (APO+CTV) To: Greg Sanders Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Sender: aaron.recompile@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20251104 header.b="BBmv/QLu"; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of aaron.recompile@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::643 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aaron.recompile@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Thanks Greg =E2=80=94 good to see the ln-symmetry CLN branch revived. A few questions about CSFS+TH+IK: 1. What does TH give you that CTV+CSFS can't already express? 2. What's IK's role =E2=80=94 just saving a pubkey push, or something more structural? 3. For state binding, does the construction fundamentally require TH, or could CSFS alone cover that part? Curious what the minimal opcode set for ln-symmetry actually is. Aaron On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 8:54=E2=80=AFAM Greg Sanders = wrote: > > In case anyone is interested, a few months ago I resurrected my old ln-sy= mmetry branch of CLN with various improvements and examples, thanks to LLM = doing the heavy lifting for revival. > > https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/ln-symmetry-project-recap/359/17 > > Aside from APO implementation, I also vibed a CSFS+TH+IK variant, though = it cannot be tested on signet directly until OP_TEMPLATEHASH is activated. = It's a drop-in replacement for CTV, if anyone cares to adapt it. > > Greg > > On Tuesday, April 14, 2026 at 5:18:24=E2=80=AFAM UTC-4 aaron.recompile wr= ote: >> >> Hi List, >> >> I ran a three-round Eltoo-style state chain on Bitcoin Inquisition 29.2 >> signet using APO (BIP 118) for state updates and CTV for settlement. >> Six transactions, all confirmed on-chain. >> >> An independent Python implementation of the BIP 118 sighash (Msg118 / >> Ext118) was cross-validated against Inquisition's C++ consensus engine. >> If the Python digest disagrees with Core's, the transaction is rejected. >> It wasn't. >> >> Construction >> ------------ >> Each state UTXO is a three-leaf Taproot tree: >> >> leaf 1 -- ctv_uhpo: OP_CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY >> leaf 2 -- apo_update: <0x01||xonly> OP_CHECKSIG (BIP 118) >> leaf 3 -- csv_escape: OP_CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY OP_DROP >> OP_CHECKSIG >> >> CTV locks each state's payout distribution >> as a template hash. APO rebinding advances state. When an APO update >> spends state vN, vN's CTV leaf >> loses its only viable input and can never settle. Only the latest state >> can produce a valid settlement. This is the Eltoo invariant, executed >> end-to-end with current tooling. >> >> Confirmed txids (Inquisition signet) >> ------------------------------------- >> Fund =E2=86=92 State v1: >> 386dbb6aa23fcc35a69d34e3c0f760b185482467abc936196d3def19d54a9c41 >> APO update v1 =E2=86=92 v2: >> 096e31ccbd8f5460b2730ec4f757ee1b01acf9dde3e3b8cb55fbb534fe195601 >> APO update v2 =E2=86=92 v3: >> 091309b73e299436ff12fceda7e54e28c6f1817fdf3405bca3343ad15198d7f6 >> CTV settlement: 13957f49d01aa21ed2aa28df7aa78f357d51a2a2fbfb434af05fdc75= ad0ff9b7 >> >> Rebind A (signed): >> 03c0577c1d47da32804d098187644d0eee18b448aded2f427cd02193c070f3a4 >> Rebind B (witness copied): >> 46091190c74d8fd4b39be67a2e945a19b021850e7f8d9e378f5eb11722ae1a43 >> >> Rebind A and B share an identical witness stack =E2=80=94 same 65-byte s= ignature >> (sighash flag 0x41), same leaf script, same control block =E2=80=94 spen= ding two >> different UTXOs without re-signing. Outputs remain committed: changing >> the output address in Rebind B causes script verification failure. >> The last two transactions are a standalone rebinding demonstration, >> not part of the state chain above. >> >> Links >> ------ >> BIP 118 signing primitive and rebinding proof (Delving Bitcoin): >> https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/bip-118-signing-from-scratch-on-chain-rebin= ding-proof/2411 >> >> Eltoo state chain construction (Delving Bitcoin): >> https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/eltoo-state-chain-on-signet-three-rounds-si= x-transactions-apo-ctv/2413 >> >> Source code (btcaaron, examples/braidpool/): >> https://github.com/aaron-recompile/btcaaron >> >> Happy to discuss the construction or the CTV+CSFS gap. >> >> Aaron Zhang > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoinde= v/494c0600-2daa-4500-8e49-bf36efbf2625n%40googlegroups.com. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 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