From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Sun, 17 May 2026 04:56:15 -0700 Received: from mail-oa1-f58.google.com ([209.85.160.58]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1wOa6Q-0007vh-9u for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Sun, 17 May 2026 04:56:15 -0700 Received: by mail-oa1-f58.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-415e1e9aa5dsf2325007fac.0 for ; Sun, 17 May 2026 04:56:14 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=3; a=rsa-sha256; t=1779018968; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=HTJNRXuL3pRtKSxHhgcF2HIkhg40fM5eiO3sz2Xn2+n6I/REqfj8+d2ZPkB2UqjJ7Q ld1ioIYXEIemBghHJpzbEQoFVFukLh5kh85bXYWtUKhHpmUb4TmgUMrRV+xVvoFiacLv Nfdoj3CZauw1M5Okep8nVItpqLzBQR049Q5PJtKpNxSVqDcVIzRWUiJQ9pJWY1olLGdB eP/tEFPLwquipFI+RaSkqebmE3YFVaKQtHej1QrwczkGjhq/Euzr8r7qHyL9uYcOOhSX 6qEdqV9j0wyBG6SlpTIQH+ylDuI7mURPb/lhTw4eAb0pJ8mDwUW2DlwGZzUj8JkJfYl5 66og== ARC-Message-Signature: i=3; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:sender:dkim-signature :dkim-signature; bh=EicSh3gfON8v0cdyosbrM0bcRl2pVIjJx+b5DOt9ANw=; fh=bGMede4lmIg7GULk4dlTERpFmro867ZjRormfll4rLc=; b=dEoUYTum+7762ad8fkbov8dPFcIO0SZoFxa/6OWyGD3UPF47tP2oNx2iSqbAB+x4og K7HqCCe8EEobWw34uH+t0sa5Qh47+2GrUBCrN6hgBk5mO8KCtPCatJ7atNRDp/3VaB3y Ijr/2a4n75hAYIYJmpyeWKw2UWr8GfCGZjh7zdc8elFPsYZxr97TtY/7Vu618LZVDTMB d0j0Nw1xH0lx9DnFvdG8XJlz39ciaU8t87Uow9ZRKUFAPQchuThyejZjzes36Vr2WFfa r8QntXAkt3o6IBlokNx6I33BHNXofbtJbNIdqwMDM/02xqNeue5wBRX9POy8XR7vglcA VhYw==; darn=gnusha.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=3; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20251104 header.b=kZE0ls2u; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of ask4ismailsadiq@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::332 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ask4ismailsadiq@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20251104; t=1779018968; x=1779623768; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=EicSh3gfON8v0cdyosbrM0bcRl2pVIjJx+b5DOt9ANw=; b=MjoE+IN9p5SCvuscaPtWCMqE8Hrrswvaw6VK6RLmzBVLpIXp4fNv1ycVywHwjEf7FX nD60YXL+9w3SyA8JQugfuvOOpqNBaEpPuOhMuGmr2EyIX6cqHct9qrigLh48o45bOeAG MYAhKovBa3N0i1GwEWZrAv2Gg0UdBmGxYHvrhCiq0ryMEh8zNq71wADtMwSE0SsWwhU/ CN4Wd3vVY9QnnsAVBi31u4/xGdas2zw2zIb1yxbR1zX3roHDbW2/tNJipMBrvIpLM/Xx kPso9Mni8GEYYmLtoAFQcS3SYMJXb0DyHl6rzctpv7z5Q6WvuKo45JJzThzXdpIw8jfq Y/Ug== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20251104; t=1779018968; x=1779623768; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=EicSh3gfON8v0cdyosbrM0bcRl2pVIjJx+b5DOt9ANw=; b=srwrFokktsf1E8fIVPNTMncvg5hbZWpw/p8Gx8cdWoKkfGLC1902ac6OWfRbfiCi+3 Ma6tf5TuZjx1Dux80R+lyIzMNU0Bm/9aFimppdjOqjkKrcuFSstBAPPJmHNqyvEVxsfr cc1hB8v3RHmtrMyUGDVwKoSRhqnV72KYRg0+K8agAsKz7cAb7KzmykPIpCpT3DxJz7Nq cDmvoer+otEsKD08fYtpsLRav+xi7vOXX0mMIfMXaCxDVk8uARo7DUackE7EBZjWoK3V ZggFTxcxZYtaMmYkGsBRZkbIt1UEc7rIHbaeOhqnP9DvgNfCdzbTr16e3K/6dpg08Tge PM5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1779018968; x=1779623768; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=EicSh3gfON8v0cdyosbrM0bcRl2pVIjJx+b5DOt9ANw=; b=bI5Mj2rnUi/lEapK1K/0nUPqDoytWilSnYbEZeNcgEQl7UEvPVylXJ1/X0LM7ZxqH8 LT7PxgAgVd2FCYXtWjryBm0IqVBK1JP4hLWlLNNJUP1PDIOgPxTAdcO7ft/JfXqaRhiR q81jGSPP4cT4Z98imSOy8SVkrhn9HK+PQ95lwzZZOl/lN218jHm69fnMK+i7QC17YYs3 P3TFKlmueQ4ZcSnopqeKWqFdfMjNAz36T97dlj0gYLZ3jAtxgJoT3FtCwamcIUekJ9uP XQ3osZXNfQMEvdaIRD1OBBPfInck6hhnyzl9kDYrn554GZD8pKHLeO7D5f0JPzo1PMfv Vhbg== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=3; AFNElJ/Uqd2MhQUbJdJMaaYjSVghvrs8cqqpGDR0tOkU77+1Gz+XiZebt9UJQf9a14ZqbveYARr/GRteBGE3@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yza/25Nw85LzuBYL2Lq1UVRz5FkLnn53CBygxBgXWygCPJYak0Y p/3lKlMA9809SMKfMx1lOmHvbQ0Kl6qrmLhCBnMplcWV1sNIAVD5GCaO X-Received: by 2002:a05:6820:829:b0:67e:2ff7:2a6e with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-69c942faa5dmr7859018eaf.18.1779018967954; Sun, 17 May 2026 04:56:07 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h="AUV6zMNn4SbbT6981GlEUJAq4jzQVZ3gDtY5oI44ozHBl7k34w==" Received: by 2002:a05:6820:160c:b0:696:17a7:39dc with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-69b8c3580cfls2830213eaf.2.-pod-prod-05-us; Sun, 17 May 2026 04:56:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:e3c5:b0:479:d16e:963c with SMTP id 5614622812f47-482e57c51b5mr5512342b6e.47.1779018963237; Sun, 17 May 2026 04:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:ab3:7f13:0:b0:2e5:dca6:8eb2 with SMTP id a1c4a302cd1d6-3011290ac33msc7a; Sun, 17 May 2026 01:50:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9882:0:b0:38a:4401:d2ac with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-39561f218afmr20676631fa.17.1779007813284; Sun, 17 May 2026 01:50:13 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1779007813; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=TAHMkCYShE59QYp63AM3/iIDSRWQwNrVnmHpCnmnEs49rSME1j0c0FE7S/d2ovFIDa b9OxFNQL6HgK0uDlbhaNxoOe2ZE7wKSJcJ2qeHgU1H3n5sTidXpDDgMULrCXdLyMorKC Yabh8SVtLfmjzTk2YVjYYSU2YE0S/kzDdPBIhKD38NteqZ3OtHCIjxg7Pk2d5ai/z+Oz dCIj856EucFiRF3gMzXcTINl9/bqDJpWKtpJD20AkkK6/asaIwnn4DpviasSRNTSw54j QyxjGPuhN5+Es6OrId462OgGVcyt+CFoLzdOvBraZzPCUqhp7hVVhxY3APB+4+wvR1oD 0e6w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=py/G2GEaIEvQZd4R9I/TaL2mUMSWAkbl0Oa2jz1hGqE=; fh=VUyRMGDsLDyKXHBc8DWjokFBiSMTvXavinKdBJZhUls=; b=PIlZEYsjNvcAm15IvzZg11Ych4dE/sPui1U9Hw7EDoPILqkOL3oSIQKCfcKHT7CKWz UfpLMgSr85syWgVUaQTRvgiUA4qxgKWAgqtv2ApaK08lq/wiurTlCH4rijnufs22oQJ9 OdKpp3uZ2dkVMn5L3TfozwXGjvzbVOfZNlI5c/VDFH9P8kLppmkkIUe/9Dos+uY/67Kq E7XPBGYlD7ZVVZCMMJrLBfVRGqtoufg8mlWYPDsvj+IB32z5MTkyPP8OYRuDaWetc70s ehTUSnnWobogW3ZsADiSOGoU0ubtXskF5jB0R/nq3GYhd1A9ueJR4AM3c201bjWB2FNu 6lfg==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20251104 header.b=kZE0ls2u; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of ask4ismailsadiq@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::332 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ask4ismailsadiq@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Received: from mail-wm1-x332.google.com (mail-wm1-x332.google.com. [2a00:1450:4864:20::332]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 38308e7fff4ca-3958874b36esi240001fa.5.2026.05.17.01.50.13 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 17 May 2026 01:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ask4ismailsadiq@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::332 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::332; Received: by mail-wm1-x332.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-48fe6629235so1460685e9.1 for ; Sun, 17 May 2026 01:50:13 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1779007812; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=Bf1L1+HtrGYvNZY6ghhui8ZB17qatwKVwS7aYxg4NBHTQWBhr1y+8fpAu6MEZ+KyRO hEHX/fSgK2hDQkcgcMfWMVLzhZBub8q0/Saw5n8ulPOE2AAOc0nxtieSMgzo5/jjZRcl tshG+Veb9IZsh0fSWMSeBKH29kpQmdFzW3MWqbU690WpaprqX4GeqH4J/dpsxIve0xZg PbRe1t0QZTDTaJvf3Mt5ZnMWwxJFpdANmTQyOi2WEbUmMBDzbyzlMp0iQCxinepxlYQw TJ6iMJ9BFpEjM6iTnULZJ5lg27duK2ESmmR+E+oCZqmiliAhvA/yWiE1B1+AUeuvf+Zj XJaQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=py/G2GEaIEvQZd4R9I/TaL2mUMSWAkbl0Oa2jz1hGqE=; fh=VUyRMGDsLDyKXHBc8DWjokFBiSMTvXavinKdBJZhUls=; b=ON5YWu716ABTPWvo8/tZdYe1uxiZLMei8x6XF76BQf+ydlBiS2ruHhM8VutfkYghEp giQEFg4t8jE6Y5jFGV1XlVJyaHCXGnFPnU5fwDJR2hY7cmlNRrfbsnZRQAN9ytO8xg0A O2lWTTsCb07PySsnTwu/n+q4aWnRardWhAfEBPVhbsvhhXBAsgE5Ng9RMOoEeD72zxtK jqmkgSwfpTRiGcO4qyn+L7qAUAJ9FVcL4nDPsSD14Wl2W4tFFGmWn9UcYPzNbLN06uhi fOfuUWCeoPuP8Jd8/j5QKABoYMQAM5jDcf3Q3qcIl6GGrUJ3rcc2ndUeAG8+ZOxcxg+o rv2Q==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none X-Gm-Gg: Acq92OElhBdAuaoBdrsgnhsOtEE36eZu1vvny3Jh9QlUN76+MN9lJWYfr7YdZm1q/4T sJ48NRak4Ttmox8rrwk3QdWdC+eIDh/vWi1k5JIlqRv+9mUItSkjLAdJ3bnHE4JKGZFJ4bgRhdk cXd8na2yY79s9+T4ns1pnwKcP2ShjUvUFVNEMrAx3XYvg3loNL2WEtgbQ/xUInPp5uKbe7/PAlF GLrHyInZqDnvMnPDw1iUg1wo6xPvBcxMe2WA1gp02cNKCx1+A/SviBKOylsvT0NT/IAC0saDyQg 7hncLiBf2/hjfo2747X4XAsCrFpV0Gml5HphAX5tX4HP2u2X+w== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:2388:b0:43d:774a:a6f7 with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-45e5c57d023mr7802995f8f.1.1779007812160; Sun, 17 May 2026 01:50:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <19616822-8a03-4de1-99be-72d50479208fn@googlegroups.com> <02c201dce227$e808e050$b81aa0f0$@voskuil.org> <002301dce4cf$27bc3040$773490c0$@voskuil.org> <26c7fd2e-d35d-4ed4-9638-18c95efc75dfn@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <26c7fd2e-d35d-4ed4-9638-18c95efc75dfn@googlegroups.com> From: sadiq Ismail Date: Sun, 17 May 2026 10:50:00 +0200 X-Gm-Features: AVHnY4Iah8BwbkCQfWY1v9uq3kNa2cZf6YYvBZhBeYiWkgQiwUDmhA8olZq3Phc Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: [BIP Draft] P2P UTXO Set Sharing To: Eric Voskuil Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b252260651ff8871" X-Original-Sender: ask4ismailsadiq@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20251104 header.b=kZE0ls2u; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of ask4ismailsadiq@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::332 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ask4ismailsadiq@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --000000000000b252260651ff8871 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Eric, Fabian, and list, I am from a place with metered and slow bandwidth, so assuming U.S. internet bandwidth and speed specifications for IBD is incorrect and ignores that not everyone shares the same reality. I will share mine. The average Nigerian individual and business uses 4G broadband from one of the telco providers, using MTN here as an example, though all have relatively the same speed: Download Speed: Up to 150Mbps Upload Speed: Up to 50Mbps These are advertised maximums; real world speeds are considerably lower. I can use wallets to receive Bitcoin as an SPV, but once you want to sync the blockchain and have a node synced to the tip, I face a significant bottleneck. The download was taking days due to frequent internet blackouts and other constraints. I think if a less-trusted setup were provided, like assumeUTXO with p2p sharing, Since my use case is data analysis, not receiving payments, I would not face this bottleneck and would definitely use it. As a real example of the point Fabian made about using worse alternatives: I also travelled hundreds of kilometres to a different city to assumeDatadir by copying the datadir from a trusted friend. The risk of the chain growing so large that syncing takes a long time is real, and I believe people from my background will simply assumeDatadir because of the cost/time of getting to the tip. It is worth noting that some also that some western cloud providers do not serve Nigeria at all. Hetzner, for example, does not, which makes robust cloud-based workarounds unavailable to us (This is changing very quickly with the recent trend of native African data centres). AssumeUTXO helps eliminate that, because at least you are not trusting one person but a group of contributors committing to a hash, with headers-first sync and other safeguards assumeUTXO provides. The use case for assumeUTXO is very real and solves a real problem. However, I am also concerned about the trust tradeoffs for users who want to validate. Having assumeUTXO may not incentivize innovations for speeding up IBD for Eric's demographic, and alternative approaches could be dismissed with: why speed up IBD if we have assumeUTXO? I think that should not be the case. AssumeUTXO is specifically tailored for certain users, but pursuing fast IBD with abundant resources is not necessarily in conflict with that. One can throw resources at IBD compute, use libbitcoin-style sync with faster peers, and get up to speed quickly, while the other simply CANNOT. AssumeUTXO is, in my opinion, a lesser evil than, for example, assumeDatadir. I honestly do not like the tradeoff of having the software commit the hash or the complexity of multiple chain states in the Bitcoin Core codebase. It still has good utility and reduces tradeoffs, so I will not dismiss it completely. https://shop.mtn.ng/mtn-4g-broadband-router.html *https://www.reddit.com/r/hetzner/comments/1ajkhp0/reasons_for_rejecting_cr= eation_of_account/ * On Sun, May 17, 2026 at 4:10=E2=80=AFAM Eric Voskuil wro= te: > From: Fabian > > > The header chain is fully validated before the snapshot is loaded, > > Validating the headers is inconsequential if you are not verifying tx > inclusion. That's what SPV is, and people should not be misled into > believing that this is SPV. > > > and the historical blocks are validated in the background. > > The issue is the time before that completing. After validating it's moot. > > > The work is the same, only the node becomes usable earlier. > > Until the work is complete the node is not usable in the sense of a node = - > it hasn't validated. > > > AssumeUTXO is anchored to a hash that is hardcoded in Bitcoin Core > > and reviewed in the open. Anyone running a fully validating node can > > independently reproduce it from their own UTXO set. > > In this proposal there is no statement that everyone must trust Bitcoin > Core. The proposal specifically states: > > "The Merkle root is the sole trust input required to verify the > integrity of the received UTXO set." > > and > > "[The Merkle root is]... either from a trusted source or by selecting > a root with agreement among multiple peers." > > The "agreement among peers" is why Bitcoin exists, so we can dismiss that > as an infinite regression. > > Above you make the explicit claim that Bitcoin Core is the oracle for thi= s > "sole trust input". If that is the case you should add it to the proposal > so that people are fully aware. > > If so the proposal establishes a central authority for validity. If not > then we are back to the original problem that Bitcoin supposedly solved - > where does this agreement come from. > > Best, > Eric > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/26c7fd2e-d35d-4ed4-9638-18c9= 5efc75dfn%40googlegroups.com > > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAHR1cdXgkh%3D6J1KgpYcHH2-wpPDzJhQMkuJXi0oci7-HcORr-w%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000b252260651ff8871 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Eric, Fabian, and list,=

I am from a place with metered and slow ban= dwidth, so assuming U.S. internet bandwidth and speed specifications for IB= D is incorrect
and ignores that not everyone shares the same reality.

I will share mine. The average Nigerian ind= ividual and business uses 4G broadband from one of the telco providers, usi= ng MTN here as an example, though all have relatively the same speed:
Do= wnload Speed: Up to 150Mbps
Upload Speed: Up to 50Mbps
These are adve= rtised maximums; real world speeds are considerably lower.
I can use wal= lets to receive Bitcoin as an SPV, but once you want to sync the blockchain= and have a node synced to the tip, I face a significant bottleneck.
The= download was taking days due to frequent internet blackouts and other cons= traints. I think if a less-trusted setup were provided, like assumeUTXO wit= h p2p sharing,=C2=A0
Since my use case is data analysis, not receiving p= ayments, I would not face this bottleneck and would definitely use it.
A= s a real example of the point Fabian made about using worse alternatives: I= also travelled hundreds of kilometres to a different city to assumeDatadir= by copying the datadir from a trusted friend.

The risk of the chain= growing so large that syncing takes a long time is real, and I believe peo= ple from my background will simply assumeDatadir because of the cost/time o= f getting to the tip. It is worth noting that some also that some western c= loud providers do not serve Nigeria at all.=C2=A0Hetzner, for example, does= not,=C2=A0which makes robust cloud-based workarounds unavailable to us (Th= is is changing very quickly with the recent trend of native African data ce= ntres).
AssumeUTXO helps eliminate that, because at least you are not tr= usting one person but a group of contributors committing to a hash,=C2=A0wi= th headers-first sync and other safeguards assumeUTXO provides. The use cas= e for assumeUTXO is very real and solves a real problem.

However, I am also concerned about the trus= t tradeoffs for users who want to validate. Having assumeUTXO may not incen= tivize innovations for speeding up IBD for Eric's demographic, and alte= rnative approaches could be dismissed with: why speed up IBD if we have ass= umeUTXO? I think that should not be the case. AssumeUTXO is specifically ta= ilored for certain users, but pursuing fast IBD with abundant resources is = not necessarily in conflict with that. One can throw resources at IBD compu= te, use libbitcoin-style sync with faster peers, and get up to speed quickl= y, while the other simply CANNOT.

AssumeUTXO is, in my opinion, a lesser evil= than, for example, assumeDatadir. I honestly do not like the tradeoff of h= aving the software commit the hash or the complexity of multiple chain=C2= =A0states in the Bitcoin Core codebase. It still has good utility and reduc= es tradeoffs, so I will not dismiss it completely.=C2=A0

https://shop.mtn.ng/mtn-4g-broa= dband-router.html
https://www.reddi= t.com/r/hetzner/comments/1ajkhp0/reasons_for_rejecting_creation_of_account/= =C2=A0


On Sun, May 17, 2026 at 4:10=E2=80= =AFAM Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org= > wrote:
= From: Fabian

> The header chain is fully validated before the sna= pshot is loaded,

Validating the headers is inconsequential if you ar= e not verifying tx inclusion. That's what SPV is, and people should not= be misled into believing that this is SPV.

> and the historical = blocks are validated in the background.

The issue is the time before= that completing. After validating it's moot.

> The work is = the same, only the node becomes usable earlier.

Until the work is co= mplete the node is not usable in the sense of a node - it hasn't valida= ted.

> AssumeUTXO is anchored to a hash that is hardcoded in Bitc= oin Core
> and reviewed in the open. Anyone running a fully validatin= g node can
> independently reproduce it from their own UTXO set.
<= br>In this proposal there is no statement that everyone must trust Bitcoin = Core. The proposal specifically states:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "The Merk= le root is the sole trust input required to verify the integrity of the rec= eived UTXO set."

and

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "[The Merkle roo= t is]... either from a trusted source or by selecting a root with agreement= among multiple peers."

The "agreement among peers" i= s why Bitcoin exists, so we can dismiss that as an infinite regression.
=
Above you make the explicit claim that Bitcoin Core is the oracle for t= his "sole trust input". If that is the case you should add it to = the proposal so that people are fully aware.

If so the proposal esta= blishes a central authority for validity. If not then we are back to the or= iginal problem that Bitcoin supposedly solved - where does this agreement c= ome from.

Best,
Eric

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.googl= e.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/26c7fd2e-d35d-4ed4-9638-18c95efc75dfn%40googlegrou= ps.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoind= ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/= msgid/bitcoindev/CAHR1cdXgkh%3D6J1KgpYcHH2-wpPDzJhQMkuJXi0oci7-HcORr-w%40ma= il.gmail.com.
--000000000000b252260651ff8871--