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[2a00:1450:4864:20::633]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 38308e7fff4ca-377a96faac2si1563601fa.6.2025.10.19.06.01.27 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 19 Oct 2025 06:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of earonesty@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::633 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::633; Received: by mail-ej1-x633.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b5b823b4f3dso656119666b.3 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 06:01:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuJ1wSqXvLFHZ8Wbgsm6PAseZXZJRZ+h++6F2xfMX+UVkjUpFX3KcddHlYX07S NY9bJF2nt+xwsz5TNjGin74NIY77vsyUBcWwrFyBbB7LaD4Pr9Fr8/feMCVD4gaXm5O8nHOngsk dZU2obIEOG/UX8eFweI84h2vgaRNCsRNS6eiu0Dfywjfh3B4WEP39Lh2tCSF95BtSKEttuC7gDh 9+N5BFGx/RKzfbAsYO4C02nYy7G1gMllY9/lBba3PqCxRaLALWMFY2N55BagT03DDbNn0+IRXGY lw57/WwC+0lE5Qk69ILVUH7aDtZocdCR2h3/SX0ZGLWSp7v+gHKLL7E= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:c102:b0:b3d:73e1:d810 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b6475123636mr1000783266b.49.1760878885622; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 06:01:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Erik Aronesty Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2025 06:01:14 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AS18NWDf9tTSQzqoyKRjLAV1GMyVRNtmf2xvUYGrMRwmw3WTFI1mrJtAR5Sl3is Message-ID: Subject: [bitcoindev] op_return spam is beneficial To: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000785a7a06418290e9" X-Original-Sender: erik@q32.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@q32-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.s=20230601 header.b=cCC76o6Y; spf=pass (google.com: domain of earonesty@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::633 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=earonesty@gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --000000000000785a7a06418290e9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" There is a strictly limited supply of money available for spam. ( Because if we don't assume this, then we have to assume that all financial transactions will get crowded out by infinite funds. ) Every time OP_RETURN is used, instead of other UTXO bearing transactions, at least one UTXO is saved. UTXO spam is dangerous for decentralization (blockchain spam isn't since blocks are always the same size) Since spam funds are limited, this is money spent to boost hashpower, and removes money from the spam pool that would otherwise create UTXO bloat. Therefore it's irrational to prevent large (or at least multiple) being used for spam. The only reason to limit this opcode is to "virtue signal that Bitcoin is not intended to store data". And while this may have some benefits in the short term given the ongoing social attack against core maintainers, in the long term I think it might have very negative repercussions to cave to a social attack that has little technical merit. However there is a serious issue with contiguous scriptlubkey data that doesn't have to do with government censorship. Apparently it is possible to produce L2 protocols that rely on the relay network and unconfirmed transactions. We need to be sure that minimum transaction fees are set quite high so that nodes are not relaying transactions that have no intention of being mined or paid for. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAJowKg%2B9EA%3Dg-i2QeTZYiOW%3D%3D3AY0qihyPVdqJNtS910u7WzcA%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000785a7a06418290e9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There is a strictly limited supply of money available for= spam.=C2=A0 ( Because if we don't assume this, then we have to assume = that all financial transactions will get crowded out by infinite funds. )
Every time OP_RETURN is used, i= nstead of other UTXO bearing transactions, at least one UTXO is saved.=C2= =A0 UTXO spam is dangerous for decentralization (blockchain spam isn't = since blocks are always the same size)

Since spam funds are limited, this is money spent to boost h= ashpower, and removes money from the spam pool that would otherwise create = UTXO bloat.=C2=A0

Theref= ore it's irrational to prevent large (or at least multiple) being used = for spam.

The only reaso= n to limit this opcode is to "virtue signal that Bitcoin is not intend= ed to store data".=C2=A0

And while this may have some benefits in the short term given the ong= oing social attack against core maintainers, in the long term I think it mi= ght have very negative repercussions to cave to a social attack that has li= ttle technical merit.

Ho= wever there is a serious issue with contiguous scriptlubkey data that doesn= 't have to do with government censorship.

Apparently it is possible to produce L2 protocols tha= t rely on the relay network and unconfirmed transactions.=C2=A0=C2=A0
=

We need to be sure that minim= um transaction fees are set quite high so that nodes are not relaying trans= actions that have no intention of being mined or paid for.







=


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