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To: Matt Corallo Cc: conduition , Ethan Heilman , bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000164e46064fcfb956" X-Original-Sender: erik@q32.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@q32-com.20251104.gappssmtp.com header.s=20251104 header.b=YHADtNGj; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of earonesty@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::229 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=earonesty@gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --000000000000164e46064fcfb956 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I think the gap between our views is that I don't buy that the "percentag= e > harm reduction" outcome > is all that interesting. Sure, there's some % where it certainly is, but > its probably in the 99+% > range, not in the 75-90% range. I think maybe the biggest gap is I just > don't find any "solution" > that results in 10-20% of bitcoin (*especially* active bitcoin people hol= d > keys to that made some > progress in migrating but maybe screwed up address reuse) being stolen as > at all interesting. bit disingenuous tho, right? technically right but only in a very narrow sense. if you reuse and reveal a pubkey, p2mr and p2trv2 collapse to the same security profile. nobody is arguing that. but that=E2=80=99s not the same as =E2=80=9Cp2mr has zero advantage.=E2=80= =9D it just means you threw away the advantage by using it wrong. before reveal, p2mr is strictly better because there=E2=80=99s no key path sitting there exposed the whole = time. basically the same pattern we already have everywhere. schnorr nonce reuse -> instant loss. bad multisig setup -> instant loss. you should say =E2=80=9Cit has zero advantage *for the users that behave ba= dly*=E2=80=9D now, consider materiality. who is going to use their 400 billion dollar quantum computer to break the law and steal 2btc from someone who failed to use a modern wallet protocol that prevents address reuse under some theoretical future where a P2MR quantum world matters? so you're down to: this is a problem.... but only for people who create their own vulns by failing to follow protocol, and also happen to have an enormous stash --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAJowKg%2BPJRdNc6RQb%2BSAf7TkG4EPZMPhJVgYQw5ygxN7JdgjTg%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000164e46064fcfb956 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think the gap between our views is that I don't buy that the "pe= rcentage harm reduction" outcome
is all that interesting. Sure, there's some % where it certainly is, bu= t its probably in the 99+%
range, not in the 75-90% range. I think maybe the biggest gap is I just don= 't find any "solution"
that results in 10-20% of bitcoin (*especially* active bitcoin people hold = keys to that made some
progress in migrating but maybe screwed up address reuse) being stolen as a= t all interesting.

bit disingenuou= s tho, right?

technically right but only in a very narrow sense. if you reuse and reve= al a pubkey, p2mr and p2trv2 collapse to the same security profile. nobody = is arguing that.

but that=E2=80=99s not the same as =E2=80=9Cp2mr has zero advantage.=E2= =80=9D it just means you threw away the advantage by using it wrong. before= reveal, p2mr is strictly better because there=E2=80=99s no key path sittin= g there exposed the whole time.

basically the same pattern we already have everywhere. schnorr nonce reu= se -> instant loss. bad multisig setup -> instant loss.=C2=A0

you should say =E2=80=9Cit has zero advantage for the users that = behave badly=E2=80=9D=C2=A0

now, consider materiality.=C2=A0 wh= o is going to use their 400 billion dollar quantum computer to break the la= w and steal 2btc from someone who failed to use a modern wallet protocol th= at prevents address reuse under some theoretical future where a P2MR quantu= m world matters?

so you're down to:=C2=A0=C2=A0

this is a= problem.... but only for people who create their own vulns by failing to f= ollow protocol, and also happen to have an enormous stash


=

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