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[2a00:1450:4864:20::635]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a640c23a62f3a-b76f5185d4asi897866b.1.2025.11.26.23.44.00 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 26 Nov 2025 23:44:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of earonesty@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::635 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::635; Received: by mail-ej1-x635.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b739ef3f739so118944166b.1 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2025 23:44:00 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncu1E6EOcFF8aIZLNv6kjRTPGNBXnUybcFzYEcggJhxmdmY8U0KrbHHwpFoxrVQ GXGxNHkj4leCGl/Po96/0p8YLiK8fxs2zIF4ApJadDCScrHkRI+EnuKA19BYMIJi3leeX+1DRLz zIxlO97MXo/fKA+LlGJd7Z2pR3nIGPX+Z1OhUFHocEj/WPXzMRWMnn2DD7zoZEOvY3DnhyAVZxN 50d4OGl8xdnn/C6wpPY6duENJo1r9xYM1YEOwD49ITdLRsnIDGb1i+LkyDJwG8MP+AUBtPyjz/t 2izYRfwHYoisARVLCwYmSOv3yJPxLObsSP84STeZPCA7ctUh0nuqmS65B62ooBHt X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:7e92:b0:b73:988c:6 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b76c56309abmr1016118466b.40.1764229438872; Wed, 26 Nov 2025 23:43:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Erik Aronesty Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2025 23:43:47 -0800 X-Gm-Features: AWmQ_bkktKpP6-aEwAKqlpsW-JqSHwh2oRg1nGTBYkpFXZ8eYdfvWDTaJxxj9ps Message-ID: Subject: [bitcoindev] op_ctv still has no technical objections To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000001a24206448eadea" X-Original-Sender: erik@q32.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@q32-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.s=20230601 header.b=dInY3UJn; spf=pass (google.com: domain of earonesty@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::635 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=earonesty@gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --00000000000001a24206448eadea Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" It's been many years and there's been a lot of discussion about various covenants I think one of the biggest problems is everyone has to insist on their baby is the best baby. op_ctv is quite literally not the best at anything. That's the whole point. It's non-recursive, can't be used for strange or dangerous things, and can be used to emulate a lot of other opcodes. It's adequate. And I don't think we want anything "better" than adequate the first time around. lnhance is more comprehensive. but also it's so much harder to reason about three separate op codes and what the attack surface could be. I don't think it's possible to optimize a series of covenants for all possible scenarios. Easy to make them too powerful and now nodes are doing too much work and we're attracting the kind of network activity that nobody wants. Fortunately the risk of CTV is fairly low. It's always possible to turn it off (no new tx)... if there's a game theory issue. I don't think there's any particular rush, but we could lose a lot of fees and support for miners if Bitcoin continues to do what it is doing now... scaling almost entirely in custodial systems. That's also just not the Bitcoin that anyone loves. At this point it feels like it's "perfect is the enemy of the good". We have an old and rather well tested pull request that is only a handful of lines of code that everyone has scrutinized a million ways. I don't think we're getting that for any other covenant opcode. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAJowKg%2BcCoocSEYsTT3bLwte%3D-3Kbzo5k6YT--UnDwzoZPF1wQ%40mail.gmail.com. --00000000000001a24206448eadea Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's been many years and there's been a lot of di= scussion about various covenants=C2=A0

I think one of the biggest problems is everyone has to insist on = their baby is the best baby.=C2=A0

op_ctv is quite literally not the best at anything.=C2=A0 That&#= 39;s the whole point.=C2=A0 It's non-recursive, can't be used for s= trange or dangerous things, and can be used to emulate a lot of other opcod= es.=C2=A0

It's adequ= ate.=C2=A0 And I don't think we want anything "better" than a= dequate the first time around. lnhance is more comprehensive.=C2=A0 but als= o it's so much harder to reason about three separate op codes and what = the attack surface could be.

I don't think it's possible to optimize a series of covenants = for all possible scenarios.=C2=A0 Easy to make them too powerful and now no= des are doing too much work and we're attracting the kind of network ac= tivity that nobody wants.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Fortunately the risk of CTV is fairly low.=C2=A0 It's alw= ays possible to turn it off (no new tx)... if there's a game theory iss= ue.=C2=A0

I don't th= ink there's any particular rush, but we could lose a lot of fees and su= pport for miners if Bitcoin continues to do what it is doing now... scaling= almost entirely in custodial systems.=C2=A0 That's also just not the B= itcoin that anyone loves.

At this point it feels like it's "perfect is the enemy of the go= od".=C2=A0=C2=A0

We= have an old and rather well tested pull request that is only a handful of = lines of code that everyone has scrutinized a million ways.=C2=A0

I don't think we're getti= ng that for any other covenant opcode.=C2=A0=C2=A0
<= br>







=

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