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[2a00:1450:4864:20::62a]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5b1f17b1804b1-483bfb83582si134555e9.1.2026.02.25.06.40.08 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Feb 2026 06:40:08 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of earonesty@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::62a as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::62a; Received: by mail-ej1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b8871718b00so1153699466b.3 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2026 06:40:08 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1772030408; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=VLduxkIeWOa2/8+taj7QDvY9uq/HK79cJZBbA9uRtFXjRT0GnJN1d/S91C9DpradBk lBqpzD89zsyNOjPDmqYhDw/emAqYf5v6oorO29pyOOY8Kr9cmL7zzd/bTp7JdOIH9N62 9VrrihFHqaVXqAy7hbhQCFaARLAAhq7G0gY0bQMszOYV90OYKXvNrAuW4v89vO4W/2y2 f2Vb2eKiYrw88Db7QSuZOrVhkbGv8Wcp17Bl9Kxlbi2pSDLS4Jd09CvUdw1XtPflNJI3 6theZ9UHUfB/+78itU/Bt/uEznqbB5+t3HhIelFQn9UkvHDbh9tTLfVRU+DcAuBcKtM2 Ux8A== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=Cgvkg4Q3rXs44rDRCJ0g2LxuN6Y0WMzD3M7ez5bmbqY=; fh=zfrgopOiIZUyW/QOQMW3tlf+B0T0p2fpIoXRbxgb3Y8=; b=kAGP6N6mQjIxXOIIiBQUip/qqqJrPyFGlLD/SBwttOoq/Dy/nLv9JUV/5pawQx0AZs Dj6bh9gVJW9DO8B9pL5hroZFInF7i14TIXjdxNRB9RO2iaOzgAIpSMOvUBkV+ksRHYl6 s/YBqaF3P7WdnFLsKuHmQypDFTDWca+s5lP5k96WBrTnx6iISYImKD5w9M/4/gYXW6pL tKpRD20LnHTz4mIo++MyEOBQVM+tu/Ld1nT4XziPx9/qebbwrWCsbziu7h8L8wrraXQ5 /ceREV1IZkOtK6adPDGg++PW0AhZUS74CXfvBdie6c/pn+k+cQGJD3fvzsWjZ20AJwOD 3sXg==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none X-Gm-Gg: ATEYQzz5vbRyuwNP7vNQjOd62xvpSOO7r4wkZB59hXoMafrilsy2r3eby7fnJWDA97Y D+bUWmgAZZykBpERBFBd2omqwM39sXer2SSEXOX8hBi5mc0e0d6hYCxuKZ9b+ervd/9XVz7Iuaw 2/pSIZSH50jGDcH4jUaQHun56DIEo7y7JJgquiCCwuNAIPJDonMKUJmaKo7bqEtPXgiiqExxp2S LQOOoY+ysRCOwqjI65XsvuAP1ZINO9TcIkI4zkqYKJEtRx8JUe6c6HgHvqyWwjXs5Y6rgsh4LMy igP4rpm2fPUS/l9SSQrLD6LLTrQ45gTlEA5M0raU3XS9eBxShNdC0TB7 X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:2684:b0:b8f:9d12:2394 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b93517ab3e2mr28464866b.45.1772030407629; Wed, 25 Feb 2026 06:40:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <823db0fa-08d3-4273-a428-04dc3d6da4d2n@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <823db0fa-08d3-4273-a428-04dc3d6da4d2n@googlegroups.com> From: Erik Aronesty Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2026 06:39:57 -0800 X-Gm-Features: AaiRm50l4fT__J7gyHzYhD5aRGV4cEjZ5aUThGNN-gbKeGDgSvLgDSUAyzr5KBc Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: The limitations of cryptographic agility in Bitcoin To: "waxwing/ AdamISZ" Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fa6115064ba6fa83" X-Original-Sender: erik@q32.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@q32-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.s=20230601 header.b=Q8fJ0WUB; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of earonesty@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::62a as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=earonesty@gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --000000000000fa6115064ba6fa83 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > I'm in, I think, a group of people now, that have pointed this out, here > and elsewhere ... I like to call it the "epistemological problem" because, > why use short words when a long one will do :) The scenario is all the > worse because (as, again, has been pointed out before): the "I have a CRQC" > signed message you mention is (more likely), or can be, someone who has > just placed a short in the market, rather than an actual CRQC holder. The > point is that during a period from "bitcoin doesn't have PQ algos" to > "bitcoin has PQ algos" the transition will always be essentially 100% > opaque; every honest action of moving to safety looks identical, onchain, > to theft. > a key that is crackable in-advance of bitcoin being cracked, so that we know quanutm is "real". 1. deterministic random elliptic-curve address on a much smaller-bit-strength curve, but not so much smaller that classical attacks are feasable 2. bounty for the solution enforceable with a smart contract 3. refusal to accept that "i have a CRQC" message unless this well-known-key is used, because anything else is likely a scam (private key known in advance) 4. understanding that cracking a 180-bit key only gives us 6 months to a year of quantum engineering scaling to fix bitcoin 6. published plan to move quickly as needed the physics is cool, but the engineering needed to scale may still well be impossible in the physical world. bitcoin *cannot* respond to claims that unicorns exist with protocol changes. but we *can* respond with a bip that allows us to rapidly deploy defense against unicorn horns once irrefutable evicence arrives that they exist. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAJowKgJwq88yfJEQzZ%2Bv-33EtEuYif1y6qsXtyoRyk2V%2B44cww%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000fa6115064ba6fa83 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I&= #39;m in, I think, a group of people now, that have pointed this out, here = and elsewhere ... I like to call it the "epistemological problem"= because, why use short words when a long one will do :) The scenario is al= l the worse because (as, again, has been pointed out before): the "I h= ave a CRQC" signed message you mention is (more likely), or can be, so= meone who has just placed a short in the market, rather than an actual CRQC= holder. The point is that during a period from "bitcoin doesn't h= ave PQ algos" to "bitcoin has PQ algos" the transition will = always be essentially 100% opaque; every honest action of moving to safety = looks identical, onchain, to theft.

<= br>
=C2=A0 a key that is crackable in-advance of bitcoin being cr= acked, so that we know quanutm is "real".

=C2=A01. determi= nistic random elliptic-curve address on a much smaller-bit-strength curve, = but not so much smaller that classical attacks are feasable=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0
=C2=A02. bounty for the solution enforceable with a smart contract=C2=A03. refusal to accept that "i have a CRQC" message unless = this well-known-key is used, because anything else is likely a scam (privat= e key known in advance)
=C2=A04. understanding that cracking a 180-bit k= ey only gives us 6 months to a year of quantum engineering scaling to fix b= itcoin
=C2=A06. published plan to move quickly as needed
=C2=A0
th= e physics is cool, but the engineering needed to scale may still well be im= possible in the physical world.=C2=A0 =C2=A0bitcoin *cannot* respond to cla= ims that unicorns exist with protocol changes.=C2=A0 but we *can* respond w= ith a bip that allows us to rapidly deploy defense against unicorn horns on= ce irrefutable evicence arrives that they exist.=C2=A0 =C2=A0

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