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[2a00:1450:4864:20::62a]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-671e4bd96a2si78269a12.5.2026.04.14.15.40.02 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Apr 2026 15:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of earonesty@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::62a as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::62a; Received: by mail-ej1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b9c01854477so1019377266b.0 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2026 15:40:02 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1776206402; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=SP4PJOVI6Jbk/IefLoL3NgJhRUKKTEZMxGUCTrx+YxGFeqcLa5N/ijdvkX72QK6QsR tbpdONxTFSZpGp+rYEGyaPRXYnOqM/jwFR6Dt4an542q4q7Ya4BhHbl4YlzcFSWPATB6 UTi9j9kGxUA1HUCFiU8ttsaQr36Itwz/GL5SR739AibE2+GszZlexb6xXMDJL2yyPxun N3XXW53ym3i4rbYf9J9KZSpbo1AEyyWfkEdug+aUObitaV6KvTzJQYyaifBjnIaWCgJ3 AYT8i3ShquP6Kd7S8p3aWFUAt8LaTeF/NsZZj93KKtFVJv8WnqmuHWglhkT3m4qU1ahN yMlA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=oLl8Br1wCaFg28woCBc2LCF19qQZwWcYG15a45BZubk=; fh=QeX9rcZFbTLJsBh4PJSh4yeJazhXI8eiMyjXjq43dsI=; b=fj3l9qb4bEbXFrGm0AD74qwn3coe9GosJPBC3dfF4DiRDkFQWwsAFyvSOm237SWrao 5eyu8Y9dEbVcbWvL8ptEbt9EpSIGBG2rmBgjD9NwHnnMeb5lBzruqDkd2S8DzUBm0RtX Jar4Nx61IQAsg/aZcwWmXgnlXuKjEQOSKY33qUNX1GH6IJLEtOL6EBcuYkEfXa+iyW+o fiXDBzb1/vVzdk2TfEo6vTdyQXwOlbV9bbkjJfTS/4gUA+kBrvi8H9SJ8zL0w4LtrNz0 Rvea64s45PALS/f5REprrQ2a3qke3zOe7QPpAA3mUXEd8xXl0WdXxNY38XwObGqgs2dJ u/mQ==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none X-Gm-Gg: AeBDievVI/zP6FOqXNMfjwWgAsskfihTSa86mSQQaHa6hs/mgd8KsgqJEr+ZsOfJXKM iPUxKrfPe/lyvIp3lnjuY32oLDcmIDDENNtyP1a1wy7TRsfnWwi4Q2fdYZzCtOsSMx3UU+JQZ8B oAC6Sop+/Y7KZwKF5UyoW4jgiio7XahCWjHsf8K73AntHHKersVTg9bDrkd+qHUsnkeDUyAjsoL GIA92d5TMN3eMnmAkfcfm+hDoEdh7eTKE85mhCpvvrrdQ72nMvKI2eVEWhoQN8xciyOFqXL14Da 1BUBRBNfbwq0/m9a6Th1CLAU4wSp6/TOp3Q4Xecy04FtSTyKVOw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:97c1:b0:b9d:de49:5d4a with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b9dde495d98mr596974466b.0.1776206402092; Tue, 14 Apr 2026 15:40:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <96E39817-8253-4AF6-86FF-E9573BC08895@mattcorallo.com> In-Reply-To: <96E39817-8253-4AF6-86FF-E9573BC08895@mattcorallo.com> From: Erik Aronesty Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2026 15:39:50 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AQROBzCMtyMglcih9SKmqW8uYVhJAD9Ty28zqInjMl4So2ieYEQeTJJYJ6H5qcU Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Deactivating ECDSA/Schnorr To: Matt Corallo Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a50363064f7347e4" X-Original-Sender: erik@q32.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@q32-com.20251104.gappssmtp.com header.s=20251104 header.b=ljIhzktJ; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of earonesty@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::62a as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=earonesty@gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --000000000000a50363064f7347e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I guess we have to trust that the market isn't stupid and won't invest in spurious or forged results. I guess that's rare enough. Crypographically negligible. On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 3:29=E2=80=AFPM Matt Corallo wrote: > Firstly I want to echo everything conduition said but I want to raise one > further point. > > You don=E2=80=99t get to decide. Nor do I. The market does. > > Both bitcoins will, without question, exist - one where insecure spend > paths are disabled (with the exceptions conduition raises, and probably > any more we can come up with [1])) and one where they are not, and the > market will decide which it prefers. > > I=E2=80=99m quite confident the market is going to pick the side that has > something like 100x less supply, especially if it avoids burning any coin= s > to the maximum extent possible=E2=80=A6the law of supply and demand doesn= =E2=80=99t care > all that much about our feelings on the matter. > > Matt > > > [1] I=E2=80=99ve noted before we should allow for both seedphrase recover= y schemes > as well as a commit-before-Q-day-reveal-after scheme to allow anyone who > has keys to non-seedphrase coins to retain ownership without having to go > to chain. This may bee important, for example, for the owner of the patos= hi > coins. > > On Apr 14, 2026, at 14:51, Erik Aronesty wrote: > > =EF=BB=BF > Deactivating ECDSA/Schnorr based schemes should not be discussed > seriously. > > You give people alternatives, yes. I'm a big fan of quantum optionality. > > But we cannot have a forced vaccination situation. > > > There is simply no credible way you can convince somebody who is sovereig= n > that their encryption algorithm is broken aside from breaking it. > > People can send to bad keys today. > > There are lots of op codes that let people shoot themselves in the foot > > Bitcoin is not a nanny state. > > "oh no someone might break satoshi's keys" > > Let them. if satoshi's 50 Bitcoin stash keys serve to be the bounty that > propels humanity to a future of limitless unbounded magical computing tha= t > is not a problem we need to solve right now. > > The worst possible thing we could do is confiscate everybody's coin and > move to a NISD approved algorithm on the say so of large government funde= d > organizations. > > That sounds dystopian at best. > > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAJowKgJcGTvkzjkRN3cd8LRkfaz= WycSp8p6oOd5D5dtEYRaB1w%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAJowKgKQqRx9E-CMOSJGgOWBO9ew2RxxNOMH4WAh%3Dh3wOozEvw%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000a50363064f7347e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, I guess we have to trust that the market isn't s= tupid and won't invest in spurious or forged results.=C2=A0 I guess tha= t's rare enough.=C2=A0 Crypographically negligible.

<= /div>
On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 3:29=E2=80=AFPM Matt Corallo &= lt;lf-lists@mattcorallo.com= > wrote:
Firstly I want to ech= o everything=C2=A0conduition said but I want to raise one further point= .

Yo= u don=E2=80=99t get to decide. Nor do I. The market does.

Both bitcoins will, w= ithout question, exist - one where insecure spend paths are disabled (with = the exceptions=C2=A0conduition raises, and probably any more we = can come up with [1])) and one where they are not, and the market will deci= de which it prefers.

I=E2=80=99m quite confident the market is going to pick th= e side that has something like 100x less supply, especially if it avoids bu= rning any coins to the maximum extent possible=E2=80=A6the law of supply an= d demand doesn=E2=80=99t care all that much about our feelings on the matte= r.

M= att

=
[1] I=E2=80=99ve noted before we shou= ld allow for both seedphrase recovery schemes as well as a commit-before-Q-= day-reveal-after scheme to allow anyone who has keys to non-seedphrase coin= s to retain ownership without having to go to chain. This may bee important= , for example, for the owner of the patoshi coins.

On Apr 14, 2026, = at 14:51, Erik Aronesty <erik@q32.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Dea= ctivating ECDSA/Schnorr based schemes should not be discussed seriously.=C2= =A0=C2=A0

You give peopl= e alternatives, yes. I'm a big fan of quantum optionality.=C2=A0
<= div dir=3D"auto">
But we cannot have a forced va= ccination situation.=C2=A0


There is simply no credible way you can conv= ince somebody who is sovereign that their encryption algorithm is broken as= ide from breaking it.=C2=A0

People can send to bad keys today.

There are lots of op codes that let people shoot themselves = in the foot=C2=A0

Bitcoi= n is not a nanny state.

= "oh no someone might break satoshi's keys"=C2=A0

Let them.=C2=A0 if satoshi's 50 = Bitcoin stash keys serve to be the bounty that propels humanity to a future= of limitless unbounded magical computing that is not a problem we need to = solve right now.=C2=A0

T= he worst possible thing we could do is confiscate everybody's coin and = move to a NISD approved algorithm on the say so of large government funded = organizations.

That soun= ds dystopian at best.=C2=A0







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