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Tue, 14 Apr 2026 11:59:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <494c0600-2daa-4500-8e49-bf36efbf2625n@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <494c0600-2daa-4500-8e49-bf36efbf2625n@googlegroups.com> From: Sergio Demian Lerner Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2026 15:58:32 -0300 X-Gm-Features: AQROBzBvu34u3TG9Oj0X7QAlBMKH_BRNy2Uk9D6x1D_VTiyHC4N8Z_XBn1vkLvc Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Subject: Eltoo / LN-Symmetry on Inquisition Signet: BIP 118 + 3-Round State Chain (APO+CTV) To: Greg Sanders Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000afd4ee064f703166" X-Original-Sender: sergio.d.lerner@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20251104 header.b=og+klcx+; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of sergio.d.lerner@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::635 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sergio.d.lerner@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --000000000000afd4ee064f703166 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you want to do have similar functionality to Eltoo without soft-forks, you can use OTC-PCs: OTS-PC: OTS-based Payment Channels for the Lightning Network https://arxiv.org/abs/2511.04021 regards, Sergio On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 12:54=E2=80=AFPM Greg Sanders wrote: > In case anyone is interested, a few months ago I resurrected my old > ln-symmetry branch of CLN with various improvements and examples, thanks = to > LLM doing the heavy lifting for revival. > > https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/ln-symmetry-project-recap/359/17 > > Aside from APO implementation, I also vibed a CSFS+TH+IK variant, though > it cannot be tested on signet directly until OP_TEMPLATEHASH is activated= . > It's a drop-in replacement for CTV, if anyone cares to adapt it. > > Greg > > On Tuesday, April 14, 2026 at 5:18:24=E2=80=AFAM UTC-4 aaron.recompile wr= ote: > >> Hi List, >> >> I ran a three-round Eltoo-style state chain on Bitcoin Inquisition 29.2 >> signet using APO (BIP 118) for state updates and CTV for settlement. >> Six transactions, all confirmed on-chain. >> >> An independent Python implementation of the BIP 118 sighash (Msg118 / >> Ext118) was cross-validated against Inquisition's C++ consensus engine. >> If the Python digest disagrees with Core's, the transaction is rejected. >> It wasn't. >> >> Construction >> ------------ >> Each state UTXO is a three-leaf Taproot tree: >> >> leaf 1 -- ctv_uhpo: OP_CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY >> leaf 2 -- apo_update: <0x01||xonly> OP_CHECKSIG (BIP 118) >> leaf 3 -- csv_escape: OP_CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY OP_DROP >> OP_CHECKSIG >> >> CTV locks each state's payout distribution >> as a template hash. APO rebinding advances state. When an APO update >> spends state vN, vN's CTV leaf >> loses its only viable input and can never settle. Only the latest state >> can produce a valid settlement. This is the Eltoo invariant, executed >> end-to-end with current tooling. >> >> Confirmed txids (Inquisition signet) >> ------------------------------------- >> Fund =E2=86=92 State v1: >> 386dbb6aa23fcc35a69d34e3c0f760b185482467abc936196d3def19d54a9c41 >> APO update v1 =E2=86=92 v2: >> 096e31ccbd8f5460b2730ec4f757ee1b01acf9dde3e3b8cb55fbb534fe195601 >> APO update v2 =E2=86=92 v3: >> 091309b73e299436ff12fceda7e54e28c6f1817fdf3405bca3343ad15198d7f6 >> CTV settlement: >> 13957f49d01aa21ed2aa28df7aa78f357d51a2a2fbfb434af05fdc75ad0ff9b7 >> >> Rebind A (signed): >> 03c0577c1d47da32804d098187644d0eee18b448aded2f427cd02193c070f3a4 >> Rebind B (witness copied): >> 46091190c74d8fd4b39be67a2e945a19b021850e7f8d9e378f5eb11722ae1a43 >> >> Rebind A and B share an identical witness stack =E2=80=94 same 65-byte s= ignature >> (sighash flag 0x41), same leaf script, same control block =E2=80=94 spen= ding two >> different UTXOs without re-signing. Outputs remain committed: changing >> the output address in Rebind B causes script verification failure. >> The last two transactions are a standalone rebinding demonstration, >> not part of the state chain above. >> >> Links >> ------ >> BIP 118 signing primitive and rebinding proof (Delving Bitcoin): >> >> https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/bip-118-signing-from-scratch-on-chain-rebin= ding-proof/2411 >> >> Eltoo state chain construction (Delving Bitcoin): >> >> https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/eltoo-state-chain-on-signet-three-rounds-si= x-transactions-apo-ctv/2413 >> >> Source code (btcaaron, examples/braidpool/): >> https://github.com/aaron-recompile/btcaaron >> >> Happy to discuss the construction or the CTV+CSFS gap. >> >> Aaron Zhang >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/494c0600-2daa-4500-8e49-bf36= efbf2625n%40googlegroups.com > > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAKzdR-ok1jwtXOYaAPBw1fhpavL%3DP%2B2jsT%2BVcKc9OwW6bhpRFw%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000afd4ee064f703166 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you want to do have similar functionality to Eltoo with= out soft-forks, you can use OTC-PCs:=C2=A0

OTS-PC: OTS-based Pa= yment Channels for the Lightning Network

On Tu= e, Apr 14, 2026 at 12:54=E2=80=AFPM Greg Sanders <gsanders87@gmail.com> wrote:
In case anyone is interested, a few m= onths ago I resurrected my old ln-symmetry branch of CLN with various impro= vements and examples, thanks to LLM doing the heavy lifting for revival.

Aside from APO implementa= tion, I also vibed a CSFS+TH+IK variant, though it cannot be tested on sign= et directly until OP_TEMPLATEHASH is activated. It's a drop-in replacem= ent for CTV, if anyone cares to adapt it.

Greg

On Tuesday, April 14, 2026 at 5:18:24=E2=80=AFAM UTC-4 aaron.recomp= ile wrote:
Hi Li= st,

I ran a three-round Eltoo-style state chain on Bitcoin Inquisition 29.2
signet using APO (BIP 118) for state updates and CTV for settlement.
Six transactions, all confirmed on-chain.

An independent Python implementation of the BIP 118 sighash (Msg118 /
Ext118) was cross-validated against Inquisition's C++ consensus eng= ine.
If the Python digest disagrees with Core's, the transaction is reje= cted.
It wasn't.

Construction
------------
Each state UTXO is a three-leaf Taproot tree:

leaf 1 -- ctv_uhpo: <template_hash> OP_CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY
leaf 2 -- apo_update: <0x01||xonly> OP_CHECKSIG (BIP 118)
leaf 3 -- csv_escape: <sequence> OP_CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY OP_DROP
<pubkey> OP_CHECKSIG

CTV locks each state's payout distribution
as a template hash. APO rebinding advances state. When an APO update
spends state vN, vN's CTV leaf
loses its only viable input and can never settle. Only the latest state
can produce a valid settlement. This is the Eltoo invariant, executed
end-to-end with current tooling.

Confirmed txids (Inquisition signet)
-------------------------------------
Fund =E2=86=92 State v1:
386dbb6aa23fcc35a69d34e3c0f760b185482467abc936196d3def19d54a9c41
APO update v1 =E2=86=92 v2:
096e31ccbd8f5460b2730ec4f757ee1b01acf9dde3e3b8cb55fbb534fe195601
APO update v2 =E2=86=92 v3:
091309b73e299436ff12fceda7e54e28c6f1817fdf3405bca3343ad15198d7f6
CTV settlement: 13957f49d01aa21ed2aa28df7aa78f357d51a2a2fbfb434af05fdc7= 5ad0ff9b7

Rebind A (signed):
03c0577c1d47da32804d098187644d0eee18b448aded2f427cd02193c070f3a4
Rebind B (witness copied):
46091190c74d8fd4b39be67a2e945a19b021850e7f8d9e378f5eb11722ae1a43

Rebind A and B share an identical witness stack =E2=80=94 same 65-byte = signature
(sighash flag 0x41), same leaf script, same control block =E2=80=94 spe= nding two
different UTXOs without re-signing. Outputs remain committed: changing
the output address in Rebind B causes script verification failure.
The last two transactions are a standalone rebinding demonstration,
not part of the state chain above.

Links
------
BIP 118 signing primitive and rebinding proof (Delving Bitcoin):
https://del= vingbitcoin.org/t/bip-118-signing-from-scratch-on-chain-rebinding-proof/241= 1

Eltoo state chain construction (Delving Bitcoin):
https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/eltoo-state-chain-on-signet-three-rounds-six-= transactions-apo-ctv/2413

Source code (btcaaron, examples/braidpool/):
https://github.com/aaron-recompile/btcaaron

Happy to discuss the construction or the CTV+CSFS gap.

Aaron Zhang

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