Hi, > Two, Alice and Caroll can always collude to have Bob never getting the HTLC > secret and as such being penalized with the highest fee on the Alice - Bob > channel. Somehow, Bob should be able to produce a proof proving that the > heartbeat protocol has played out in integrality on the Bob-Caroll channel > and that no HTLC secret was ever learn from Caroll. After writing this initial post and walking back to home, I figured out it was precisely broken on this precise step and never took time until now to say why. There is an easy way for Caroll to escape the replay of Bob's heartbeat transcript on Alice-Bob channel, i.e Caroll can just unilaterally force-close the Bob-Caroll channel and provide the HTLC secret on-chain. So to mitigate this, Bob's proof should be composed of the concatenation of the "off-chain" ping-pong transcript _or/and_ the "on-chain" witness or a trace of it. Intuitively, to satisfy any penaly script mechanism on the Alice-Bob channel, the "on-chain" and "off-chain" state has to be reconciliated, as any "on-chain" or "off-chain" outcome is indeed valid. For the trace of the Bob-Caroll "closure" witness, it sounds it could be achieved with some adaptor signature scheme, where Caroll is the oracle for the Alice-Bob chan, the message signed would be the UTXO or the script only, though this is asking more thinking (the signature is pure noise, so it could *not* be set ahead of the reveal on the AB-link). Anyway, I'm thinking that this class of "amnesic" knowledge transfer to link an off-chain events between 2 contracting protocols rooted in two distinct UTXOs where contracting parties might have competing interest is very interesting. In my mind, a practical solution would be valuable beyond the pure scope of channel jamming. The operational model would still rely on the counterparties not hitting the chain, though in practice the revocation - penalty mechanism of LN is already working (how many justice txn have seen published on mainnet ? probably in the order of 2-digits). Best, Antoine OTS hash: 7f08ea7660c86cdbc6f8950782081a46f7daadd668a610d025bbeabb52d8828e Le jeu. 22 janv. 2026 à 06:41, Antoine Riard a écrit : > Hi, > > Recently, before the EoY vacation to be more precise, I gave a talk on the > BitVm > flavors and their advances, which was the opportunity to browse back a bit > the > old cryptographic primitive underpinning the claimed advances. One of such > primitive > is indeed the old idea of "garbled circuits" and how to order knowledge > transfer > among two distrusted parties [0]. > > What it's interesting for this class of cryptographic protocol is the wide > class > of secure multi-party game that can be built from it, and a bit of > analysis lets > you modelize quite easily channel jamming as a multi-party game (Alice, > Bob, Caroll > the next hop and the blockchain). Few years ago, when with Gleb Naumenko, > we studied > the solution design space for jamming, we briefly mentioned how "smart > contract" > (a.k.a something something covenant for more expressivity), could be a > potential > solution [1] [2]. > > Looking more on "garbled circuits" made me realize that actually we might > have already > the primitives to envision "native contract-based" solutions to the > channel jamming > problem, and this with no consensus change. I.e beyond the known "monetary > solutions" > and "reputation-based" solutions [3] > > This is not the intent of this short post to discuss the merits of the > current > reputation-measured channel mitigation, which still have a lot of good > properties > like local vs global, monadic vs consensus, non-fungible vs fungible and > lightning-endogenous vs exogenous on some scarce ressource. Rather than > it's to > bring some prolegomena of a solution to the problem of a channel jamming, > as it has > been said elegantly and succintly: > > "The holy grail? is indeed charging fees as a function of the time the > HTLC was held. > As for now, we are not aware of a reasonable way to do this. There is no > universal > clock, and there is no way for me to prove that a message was sent to you, > and you > decided to pretend you didn’t. It can easily happen that the fee for a > two-week > unresolved HTLC is higher than the fee for a quickly resolving one". [4] > > Solving this problem, in my view, means to reconciliate the off-chain > notion > of shared time among the 2 Lightning state machines with the on-chain > imperative > notion of time. A effective notion of time enabling one to determine > objectively > if an event did happen or not (e.g a message exchange) [0]. All the > difficulty > being that off-chain there is no such notion of shared time. > > Let's start with a strawman protocol, that is moving one step closer to an > effective notion of shared time among 2 Lightnig state machines. > > One way to solve channel jamming would be to have a (taproot) tree of > scripts > covering the whole time range for which the funds are locked in the offered > HTLC (so ``). I.e for each block belonging to the cltv_expiry > range, > Bob pays Alice a penalty from his `counterparty_balance` (on Alice's > commitment_tx) > where "local channel time" is ticked by some monotonic counter. This tree > of > scripts would become valid to be spend after some timelock enforced grace > delay. > > It should be noted, that if the HTLC routing is extending beyond the reach > of > Bob, Bob has no guarantee that he will get the HTLC secret before the upper > bound of Alice's cover penaly script is reached on the Alice - Bob > channel, e.g > time T + 200 > > As soon as the offered HTLC has been committed on both parties commitment > transactions (Alice is the latest's one to receive the RAA), Alice and Bob > starts to exchange ping-pong messages where each message is increasing the > monotonic counter. Those messages might have as a data payload the preimage > for which the Alice to Bob offered HTLC is pending. > > While Bob might have received the HTLC secret from Caroll at absolute > blockchain > time T + 100, and give it to Alice at time T + 110 i.e before the > expiration of > the hard `cltv_expiry`, Alice is always in a position to equivocate and > said she > never received the preimage from Bob ping-pong message. > > So this strawman protocol is obviously broken. > > Let's consider the same protocol, with few differences, the ping-pong > messages > between Alice and Bob are scheduled on some hearbeat rythm, so message > happens > every X, in way that Alice cannot guess if yes or no, a secret exchange > did happen > between Bob and Caroll about the next hop HTLC secret. > > The penalty scripts are also modified where Bob can now prove a ping > message > at time T + 110 has been viewed by Alice, with the correct HTLC secret. So > Alice would make a claim by broadcasting a transaction to claim the output, > and Bob would be able to dismiss the penaly with a valid proof of preimage > transfer. > > Other modification, all ping-ping messages sent by Bob from Alice would be > now an oblivious transfer, where Alice would sign all the pongs and the > incremented counter [6], among those pongs would be a ciphered HTLC secret. > This mechanism allows Bob to obtain an off-chain proof (e.g go to unblind > the > signed HTLC secret) that Alice has seen a preimage at time T + 110, and > they > can now update the HTLC commitment txn, back to the normal flow. If Alice > stucks > the channel, she "knows" that she would loss the proving game with Bob. > > However, this strawman protocol still present 2 bottlenecks, that are > described > in their main lines. > > One, there is no guarantee that Alice engage in the heartbeat protocol, so > the HTLC commitment transaction should present some scripting path where > the > ping-pong messages are numbered, and if this has not reach some threshold > before the `cltv_expiry`, she got punished on her local balance. One > counterparty > should always engaged in the "amnesic" knowledge transfer, under the risk > of > on-chain punishment. > > Two, Alice and Caroll can always collude to have Bob never getting the HTLC > secret and as such being penalized with the highest fee on the Alice - Bob > channel. Somehow, Bob should be able to produce a proof proving that the > heartbeat protocol has played out in integrality on the Bob-Caroll channel > and that no HTLC secret was ever learn from Caroll. That's where "garbled > circuits" might be useful in minimizing the amount of knowledge leaked from > Bob-Caroll channel to Alice, while still ensuring fairness [7]. > > To conclude, this short post is advancing the idea that oblivious transfer > class of protocol, might be able to solve the channel jamming issue where > the messages are exchanged without all the parties "knowing" what has been > exchanged, and being punished by on-chain scripts, if the equivocate from > the knowledge transfer they engage into. I'm not making the claim that this > strawman protocol is fully sound game-theoretic wise, though I found if a > shared notions of time can be enforced among 2 Lightning channel > counterparties, > the implications are wider than just solving channel jamming. > > Anyway, I don't have time to flush more the ideas exposed here [8], though > I > was eager to mention them if some people are bored and wish to play with > interesting cryptographic primitives actually solving real-world lightning > problems. > > Cheers, > Antoine > OTS hash: 98c12f58d4e39e85427cca156cc548d225b2ecb45296be70a93d3534b77aa1c7 > > [0] "How to Generate and Exchange Secrets" - Andrew Yao, 1986. > [1] See "Chapter 4 - Solution Design Space" - "Solving channel jamming > issue of the lightning network", Naumenko / Riard, 2022 > [2] As the joking goes "Oh a workable solution to a bitcoin problem > involving > a consensus change, that's a very ice theoretical paper you've here, sir!". > [4] See for more - "Unjamming Lightning: A Systematic Approach", > Clara Shikhelman and Sergei Tikhomirov, 2022. > [4] > https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/fee-based-spam-prevention-for-lightning/1524/2 > [5] "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it > make a sound ?" "A Network of Micropayments Channels Can Solve > Scalability" - > Lightning Network paper. > [6] E.g counter could fit in a nSequence field. > [7] I'm wawing aside the biggest witness trace that Lightning nodes might > have to pay, as one downside of this kind of solution compared to the other > ones. > [8] Yes, the subject would have deserved a real research paper, but > writing your > own bitcoin full-node it's real work, no kidding. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CALZpt%2BHJ-iRD9dZQMwmbVuov8sbk9nSkyzPcBS09U9qzxXpzsQ%40mail.gmail.com.