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[2a00:1450:4864:20::634]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ffacd0b85a97d-430f1ac18a7si47908f8f.2.2025.12.15.01.59.29 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 15 Dec 2025 01:59:29 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of garlonicon@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::634 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::634; Received: by mail-ej1-x634.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b736d883ac4so507742266b.2 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2025 01:59:29 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Gg: AY/fxX5n1QPatcyNs04nBR1Tybt//WTQiwNCPugqOApIEeLHC8TKH6LLoewb0OezK2E 7n13dyfLp72SM3NKoA9RHPGou5NSwO3ztZZTFIs71iwZ0zYQ4OzcZ0AiTleoKhjrYaIvxdq+oVa aJkTEyPIuOWKPHklT5YpFbOXexLvEVkgNoKO6Z76HpkCOlgsEBtFWirMmC95d5fipUxXQVJ4RfC KhTS/+sbPUxRs5htkH6gVkGJrYJdTMhL9L1qQwvqimKfe8QDOwQibrAcFllFMFsS2/23HfxNHe4 fG8S X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:2d86:b0:b73:4bc3:dfc2 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b7d23619fb4mr1147229766b.8.1765792769132; Mon, 15 Dec 2025 01:59:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4355092f-4cd6-4e3f-9ae8-4823183ca731n@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: From: Garlo Nicon Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2025 10:59:17 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2oqHOaM5GecIdPwdfW2t-mfcetc9H_j19s7zqHTNtSzocOsISMZvGtQFH8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [Discussion] Year 2106 Timestamp Overflow - Proposal for uint64 Migration To: "Russell O'Connor" Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List , Henry Romp <151henry151@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c04c170645faaa6c" X-Original-Sender: garlonicon@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=VqPm6SbE; spf=pass (google.com: domain of garlonicon@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::634 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=garlonicon@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --000000000000c04c170645faaa6c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > The blockchain won't "halt" at overflow, it will have validation problems. These "validation problems" will be quite serious. For example: it will be possible to produce a chain with a bigger chainwork, and pass it to the old nodes. Which means, that the chain can go forward for the new nodes, while being perceived as a constantly reorged, by the old implementation. And then, the question is: do we want to design a new soft-fork in a way, where it would be seen as constantly-reorged chain by the old nodes? > The overflow doesn't automatically stop the chain. It will, because overflowed timestamps from 1970 will be rejected by all old nodes. > At that point there are no more valid blocks that can be appended to the chain. As long as the chainwork won't overflow, you can always reorg the old blocks. If that reorg will be deterministic, and accepted by hashrate majority, then it will be seen only by old nodes. New nodes can see a stable chain, always going forward, beyond 0xffffffff. Anyway, it will be just one-bit increment per 136 years. niedz., 14 gru 2025 o 15:09 'Russell O'Connor' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List napisa=C5=82(a): > On Sat, Dec 13, 2025 at 5:05=E2=80=AFAM Henry Romp <151henry151@gmail.com= > wrote: > >> The blockchain won't "halt" at overflow, it will have validation >> problems. The overflow doesn't automatically stop the chain. Nodes would >> continue with wrapped-around timestamps (though this would cause some >> problems). >> > > Yes the blockchain halts. > > The timestamps are required to eventually increase; more specifically eac= h > new timestamp is required to be strictly greater than the MTP timestamp. > Assuming these timestamps stay reasonably accurate up to the end then at > best you can squeeze out a few more blocks by lying about the time, but > eventually the MTP timestamp will reach its maximum value. At that point > there are no more valid blocks that can be appended to the chain. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAMZUoKkXQv%2BLO_3iWf1_PnPMR= 7ocO0ddHZhfZo63Umst%3DpVCPg%40mail.gmail.com > > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAN7kyNhQ%2BmwkvXG%2Bx-im4TUuNrEVeqzJWs1ki4%2BXRmRN816kXA%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000c04c170645faaa6c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> The blockchain won't "halt" at overflow= , it will have validation problems.

These "validation problems= " will be quite serious. For example: it will be possible to produce a= chain with a bigger chainwork, and pass it to the old nodes.

Which = means, that the chain can go forward for the new nodes, while being perceiv= ed as a constantly reorged, by the old implementation.

And then, the= question is: do we want to design a new soft-fork in a way, where it would= be seen as constantly-reorged chain by the old nodes?

> The over= flow doesn't automatically stop the chain.

It will, because over= flowed timestamps from 1970 will be rejected by all old nodes.

> = At that point there are no more valid blocks that can be appended to the ch= ain.

As long as the chainwork won't overflow, you can alway= s reorg the old blocks. If that reorg will be deterministic, and accepted b= y hashrate majority, then it will be seen only by old nodes. New nodes can = see a stable chain, always going forward, beyond 0xffffffff.

=
Anyway,=C2=A0it will be just one-bit increment per 136 years.

niedz., 14 gru 2025 o 15:09=C2=A0'Russell O= 9;Connor' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> napisa=C5=82= (a):
On S= at, Dec 13, 2025 at 5:05=E2=80=AFAM Henry Romp <151henry151@gmail.com> wrote:
=
<= div>
The blockchain won't "halt" at overflow= , it will have validation problems. The overflow doesn't automatically = stop the chain. Nodes would continue with wrapped-around timestamps (though= this would cause some problems).

Yes the blockchain halts.

The timestamps = are required to eventually increase; more specifically each new timestamp i= s required to be strictly greater than the MTP timestamp.=C2=A0 Assuming th= ese timestamps stay reasonably accurate up to the end then at best you can = squeeze out a few more blocks by lying about the time, but eventually the M= TP timestamp will reach its maximum value.=C2=A0 At that point there are no= more valid blocks that can be appended to the chain.

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