From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Mon, 18 May 2026 14:08:01 -0700 Received: from mail-qt1-f183.google.com ([209.85.160.183]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1wP5Bw-0001UF-I2 for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Mon, 18 May 2026 14:08:00 -0700 Received: by mail-qt1-f183.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-5162ee45a77sf77432201cf.1 for ; Mon, 18 May 2026 14:08:00 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=3; a=rsa-sha256; t=1779138474; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=fdUVdsAf4ZfaU+9JWpJBWFNhNB/GbXDplXkMgRTSXd6Sn8uxyWifRkyhM96riAtjnM H3eZMPzHFkuy8lTA8dA8NPQe10E9MEdCtTJVnUJJI4mFtISwVmEISdcAoTjSZx65Uzxu yq/WO+pdE4vUDSpZUNmjnf6Q7TAEpMk3I/q2kIqQXHJlZbqERAmiSiRTwFl3j7mLx/+s uRcliIM0HqFeXuY7MFCfoh/ozzPMABgas6BSus02X1MfxlP1WqVYxTrw/eWRCrCJJ0v/ Bb6Qw6YYs4hf3yivgulHGCRhvA3yK49Z9cbXFHjA3vskblqsIph2x6dM65tRFoOm1xuc ZPmw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=3; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:sender:dkim-signature :dkim-signature; bh=TTnj+ev1lbPHV9LwehN2NrbTwvx/YnhddgiAGIVfQQA=; fh=lQhi4TpyMI8O8paJu4IFlwuiU8FL5T8+um/9NkHbK4M=; b=WF2aV7rT8cYNHH3bfpKEXUWX/yg40kV/X2OZnsScxWt7x8PLeAlAMc8YL841bw1Z6j T3xLSfy3aUAflXsr4h4DP2aMEf/3eiVDvFyBmnK62lXBtgf00MjIWZms3ciqMW8fSIcf nKoBu7VdAitdm4Uh1WbeoGvlHuoPWwNMNfyUR/MnlwSsxC7OyZF/AK2ZlIhDTzSIO8OU gShz5z7y5w/+arnz3XMyHqQ8L0uXKc2o4/coJqm7XsechETgSNmlIWhmZqNmwc/zXmE6 0Xv50v1bCElu8NraxXUDLl/cpLJ4tKKPoGNZaDgN937x6D12btZfT5k1GFqOhKaoOU8b n6WQ==; darn=gnusha.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=3; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20251104 header.b=RIVa4PP7; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of zacmitton22@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::131 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=zacmitton22@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20251104; t=1779138474; x=1779743274; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=TTnj+ev1lbPHV9LwehN2NrbTwvx/YnhddgiAGIVfQQA=; b=ouFlk/Bz25j2s9Cpd1ZPf//VS2SBXg5iH/3U104jaoaAfW6DqGrHby1c3Xu4uaH1jO DqLEvwUCUqyyMsGQFdgwmEFWBlXGW42VhTrIGdIA5FekPQSwEh1qaUu3oJr0vmvDGsD9 9W4T5HAVhBsSR1kqb7iqpmHlmUIc5UAv/X2wBtW5O8SjgVfBC9+n/G4NaserBc1LjAQq 8cFGk8bEO5W0J3NKoFj2xYbj1ADmtM8FvkAfhBKO5DZF8TTHDjO4RiPXcdBr1VyJWbIM eGbeqii5y1TnOaqorsoXGuwoIA8Y+0eU4S6ud9seI9OoatpPOw/jonNah+FTdR3rOXyt Cllg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20251104; t=1779138474; x=1779743274; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=TTnj+ev1lbPHV9LwehN2NrbTwvx/YnhddgiAGIVfQQA=; b=JzWzUtNu8ENjfaKzV+ApYILo7W8nPEGdcGsTgtBI5tS2KCZ28LEAWStygh4sMMkhYf v3DGjRctg/XwuLetK5ayEtPz8YYLB2Zin4k8PhtObcbvTsxd7oFGytJT8mkIuHMpqAps RDS6S9oD5HcmC4fYDTsytw3jYa9VZ0JMVP1odZP++ppBdJXA8jBHA3o4FjH9ojCO1+qc emdxAhNFXjBTV34Iq5DtimwZXuqzFSpwCWx3gDzpPf+lemPmUhCe+/8z1IgJqRP/uuTn u7tEBSuRW67MFB0OhzSiWtfAGjEsyYeGG8WP7j9r6HrXc/IbqnsjLG4gDltgvY/ChsWk nmEA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1779138474; x=1779743274; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=TTnj+ev1lbPHV9LwehN2NrbTwvx/YnhddgiAGIVfQQA=; b=nUAuDWd9Dw3YA9sRNVXIfTZ1tdYKw3yLn11S9jP+zJkpklhhpW+LN5u2lwZ4fuLz2U lFWGN4OuaPtSzu9gNe2Wms6Hu0nLRgzPSQQ2MrTW2Tj/0Ct/8TYEIsWmMiKEGRcL65Jq 6KAtJT8ZmSb4RbZCkSsZlYfmXjdqhOCxoYIMosoynLSKdBoj2NnoAZP6PLc9vE2Zq6U8 aKRVn2btu/rL88FviHYB02LBAtAdzuKTIKZud/XA4BHHnKPTVZrVRxHD1gpvk58BYc4v ovu60HWxfj+2bJ79O4cK0bQsnDjQzfltfe/OdQ+9IXPjhtrO93eso/oxS8JDWe0U1/yx X/Tg== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=3; AFNElJ8pGuEV8DEjjD++W6LdMJVlwiWfV2nNuI84giaaUbius7OJfPh4i4D2tDqR+ZEedWTSXWTwvqRodbwX@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwY+RfNonH1JLQcy+DHeeE7tgN2GkIPSpvqGLU+VWK5/1BeRZUd DjS5tSpC6IAyz719sUQkDvPhu1f6lnD9o0vAdFeXPy3wKrHugmWP8YBI X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:428d:b0:514:6667:73b8 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-5165a1db12bmr216921651cf.37.1779138473954; Mon, 18 May 2026 14:07:53 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h="AUV6zMNZs7ttmWYFqL44vDttwnLtwre/u/0uYKwRyXYex+sb2g==" Received: by 2002:ad4:5ae6:0:b0:8c7:2c9d:13b with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-8c946d4ac13ls112653886d6.2.-pod-prod-03-us; Mon, 18 May 2026 14:07:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4707:b0:8cd:9033:1724 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-911cce886fbmr2595672185a.9.1779138468237; Mon, 18 May 2026 14:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:aa7:c046:0:b0:672:bd1b:222f with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-67c1341d321msa12; Mon, 4 May 2026 15:34:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:930a:b0:bc3:5fb0:af6a with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-bc35fb0b0b5mr231184366b.21.1777934072420; Mon, 04 May 2026 15:34:32 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1777934072; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=BvJViznwerYwwrqu64qHyOUXPV1+al0LhmztPj1iGcSxfGsdAYvCQ0hEoN0jDcborr l2zPJ5sg158hqx3abU27Gv56jBwduRzL5Gm7HTqzLTEBpoHkJ147hcqoS3bwEyPxVVqs 0FkpZLGhCPt4srN7JMQdmLSZlEb1IqJDzYddm3jK0ChDkS+z0D7X1Zmz7OFWlpZR+k86 cvEq4Mwp9GjnRMWKl7Mp7+W4yx4IdbtFkgf7Yj1KGWEuiiZdVyaDmPHEn+WA71FGSZUV 7++qR68Q5gs7eCE/PIPTFJfOzOs/dpvJ0fpaRkwUZnLDpvwxzBkga4F+EESIpxJW+3hr ZESg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=P+LIG6Ql57v338dQxYDCKeA2YrVrsQEoQLsKQ4Auic8=; fh=CGORPbTd7OkcxmYqnmmFK6wj6GyqiyEPqXM33r9Xvpo=; b=fIshUAmiPLEC+XcZ33JqNJo+metOX9sGgh8zmcnanTLT1q+DkhzsUs2VAKLTm0Sg8O 6kKzUZA56L14fXpcm7Ens3XAFNDv+vpH7RWzviM3O4Kw05GFaHMtWhkO/jWVaESbYpQD cXydP7yHXiIKc5HjeiVyXoUwb1l1BVpaxatX58erOilhBXJOV05tvRunnBB8C3WGMhVh Wn/yBrKoo2f20JsQxdXnohzl+JUpz9HFiGmUOI+p5orf2HAfZEyV2FwqC2YwkNXU/zzF td/ZXjZ+yNAYWZ+C0hiqXZPsdioC7N7heN4rn9XCKKBS+YPUt706h8uvgPs1CycHcVWA P8RA==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20251104 header.b=RIVa4PP7; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of zacmitton22@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::131 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=zacmitton22@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com (mail-lf1-x131.google.com. [2a00:1450:4864:20::131]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a640c23a62f3a-bbe6b779f0fsi20110466b.3.2026.05.04.15.34.32 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 04 May 2026 15:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of zacmitton22@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::131 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::131; Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5a40502e63bso4654189e87.0 for ; Mon, 04 May 2026 15:34:32 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1777934072; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=es4gY/5tghZxNpiksIM7KWiDAoAIpokRRckoGvZai+wgBrt703FwwILyCLHIna7QEO 76BxE0Dm1p/piiSgs6S0xmEAFAIYKz2ydT2gJ+5v5Ny5VwE+CU4cT+mEqsTLhSYLe9kl u1Lgv+VFaFPVQLi5YOsF1I49iG/5hvIL5wFzz1mn5lgcAAwqzfemSLLG9TpY/mviUqe5 8CDrxpAmtqUgakO10BulMJM0KD+wAJ54qqzoDwjH4YEXUfLTvK+/lOst6XUtvSL7iVo2 CMvFkllNog79USEAybh+X4dYDpJY0hJk3xtXN3Rrxna9wsjpjvMK8NMdgCMnJduNbtOO b2fA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=P+LIG6Ql57v338dQxYDCKeA2YrVrsQEoQLsKQ4Auic8=; fh=CGORPbTd7OkcxmYqnmmFK6wj6GyqiyEPqXM33r9Xvpo=; b=Yn/E9Q+v4f6tVqTe4rLzqz8O6SH96UhdqYn7aB5I7lt0UGSzznnJ6t7qzqa2KTwnmA 9l1AFpwal3tZQ2m1vBP/p2gZ351OY8uG9Cee92Gog74SVHi8/mec8mbWwLtL/N+aBp8j 2/7MCIjoxP9ePSpvTEBEwEuMY3kD2LUlohIBQCxP+W1RHXuk09DbljktAstZX4lLIpJt uIsezmnuRExPhwe02HZUVn/HyR8gK3cLpPHYcpC4lOrl7EXUsS3SqD57FsuKd6y2BrVY FJK/CxRzyEMAgTQYbJPeCoe69x8toTLlwbBWRCH/zVRavYfHVWRh2PdS5q825nfesvTj NxDg==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none X-Gm-Gg: AeBDietN3j0bry8NVprfWj4FaoKsBRFLKaskAcP7Syg318/X0BSEIs3hPC0Zp0zZa5D FbG5XvRUC75t0WNw1f7bxcrD9mxBaOS6au4dEC66SCjhbEgdx0Z6VKEpKBjPV2f2XH0gkHU5qal WzbDP6DPOeDXunPAbFCL/oyDMQS/lqpUekA4dexTWlqg8au4Nfk8nj/vjatillZk1UplcKDFRsW TaATnVzW2+7IMEEw+bT82UCNuIeIMwWvviejwmyVy9p4zAilLn50EoIrt6fIkxdAyqhtucGAmDZ xzXAmJJtWadLCJwm1Ne4wV77UKCxifqRE4oEIuTCsJMp1dA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:33c3:b0:5a4:7ed:3e41 with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5a8631c3615mr3984066e87.32.1777934071407; Mon, 04 May 2026 15:34:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0aadce7a-b08b-4fd2-8bae-37df1cfc54afn@googlegroups.com> <4516f3ab-0715-4dd9-825c-eed4eac3065a@thinlink.com> In-Reply-To: <4516f3ab-0715-4dd9-825c-eed4eac3065a@thinlink.com> From: Zac Mitton Date: Mon, 4 May 2026 18:34:19 -0400 X-Gm-Features: AVHnY4Iu7eYr1J_9TFYufd5YpXOU9JeFeebZQVPyMClbE-vW95vny3PRyoGFidc Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Fly Client Proposal To: Tom Harding Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c2a6d00651058800" X-Original-Sender: zacmitton22@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20251104 header.b=RIVa4PP7; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of zacmitton22@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::131 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=zacmitton22@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --000000000000c2a6d00651058800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, Let's keep this thread about Flyclient on Bitcoin. The challenges related to actually getting a soft-fork into bitcoin are best discussed elsewhere. If anyone has information related to progress on this, or implementation ideas please help by posting here or DMing me. I will try to aggregate. On Mon, May 4, 2026 at 12:26=E2=80=AFPM Tom Harding wro= te: > Zac, > > That's probably because the question, and my post, are off-topic. They > are not about FlyClient, which is not interesting to me because bitcoin's > header chain is tiny. > > Instead they touch on two techniques which would improve on most > historical implementations of SPV clients by adding protocol support for > them. > > Sorry for the distraction. > > Tom > > > On 5/3/26 12:26, Zac Mitton wrote: > > Tom I can=E2=80=99t seem to grok the question or your explanation of it. = Could you > spell it out for us in detail? > > > Thanks, Zac > > On Sun, May 3, 2026 at 12:58=E2=80=AFPM Tom Harding w= rote: > >> In the linked presentation by Benedict B=C3=BCnz, it's worth listening t= o the >> first audience question/answer. Questioner is spot on that an SPV clien= t >> polling the network to gain probabilistic confidence of unspentness coul= d >> easily subsume the task of gaining input inclusion proofs from the netwo= rk, >> with no forking change necessary. >> >> On Wednesday, April 29, 2026 at 2:03:36=E2=80=AFPM UTC-7 Zac Mitton wrot= e: >> >>> Hi, Ive been looking into FlyClient first described here >>> . I don't see = any >>> BIPs, or previous discussion in this forum about it either. >>> >>> On bitcoin It could allow a light-client to verify the entire work of >>> the heaviest chain with a single ~100KB proof. >>> >>> It can theoretically be done as a soft-fork by injecting a single hash >>> into the coinbase tx (similar to how segwit is committed to). >>> >>> What do you guy's think? >>> >> >> --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAOsDwYYw7bfRdfr5AsPWM1WmN7BePrvYDRQ2WRWhNpVcDHeo%2BA%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000c2a6d00651058800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok, Let's keep this thread about Flyclient on Bitcoin.= The challenges related to actually getting a soft-fork into bitcoin are be= st discussed elsewhere.

If anyone has information relate= d to progress on this, or=C2=A0implementation=C2=A0ideas please help by pos= ting here or DMing me. I will try to aggregate.

On Mon, May 4, 2026 at 12:26=E2=80=AFPM Tom Harding <tomh@thinlink.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Zac,=C2=A0

That's probably because the question, and my post, are off-topic.=C2=A0 They are not about FlyClient, which is not interesti= ng to me because bitcoin's header chain is tiny.

Instead they touch on two techniques which would improve on most historical implementations of SPV clients by adding protocol support for them.

Sorry for the distraction.

Tom


On 5/3/26 12:26, Zac Mitton wrote:
=20
Tom I can=E2=80=99t seem to grok the question or yo= ur explanation of it. Could you spell it out for us in detail?


Thanks, Zac

On Sun, May 3, 2026 at 12:58=E2=80=AFPM Tom Harding <tomh@thinlink.com> wrote:
In the linked presentation by Benedict B=C3=BCnz, it's= worth listening to the first audience question/answer.=C2=A0 Questioner is spot on that an SPV client polling the network to gain probabilistic confidence of unspentness could easily subsume the task of gaining input inclusion proofs from the network, with no forking change necessary.
On Wednesday, April 29= , 2026 at 2:03:36=E2=80=AFPM UTC-7 Zac Mitton wrote:
Hi, Ive been looking into FlyClient first described here. I don't see any BIPs, or previous discussion in this forum about it either.

On bitcoin It could allow a light-client to verify the entire work of the heaviest chain with a single ~100KB proof.

It can theoretically be done as a soft-fork by injecting a single hash into the coinbase tx (similar to how segwit is committed to).=C2=A0

What do you guy's think?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoind= ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/= msgid/bitcoindev/CAOsDwYYw7bfRdfr5AsPWM1WmN7BePrvYDRQ2WRWhNpVcDHeo%2BA%40ma= il.gmail.com.
--000000000000c2a6d00651058800--