From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 12:47:33 -0800 Received: from mail-oo1-f56.google.com ([209.85.161.56]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1vIYnU-0000vY-O2 for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 12:47:33 -0800 Received: by mail-oo1-f56.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-656c96ed908sf290690eaf.1 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 12:47:32 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1762807646; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=eJrxoeb9ygz03wmCFYOlb8bru5NrdKjGa515DvCA2LouaSsQHoyGQMs/jQ5GmAMNZP OFgApqq7+JeVQvMKIhwrpnrjIrisXbEuwwFTq7aHR+pkiF74uPfW833xZqoCIpqREPTA hOCNgpPgmyq9BoIS/2vjL2eKB68r1ukqTiXuaCaUNBoaU9H5mQ+Qp8DUI9vd7DIX+8BP rI9tQ+17noHtQMGMrYSVJnRJEmol1MKRSTypX//kQEmz/RmRcNqwDtzq2n+02uSHG61N mwRS4z6otE+xTfrYGbtcNIcYIPD/AFKafuvI0V8yTsrSm7HDG+GX2dksygP7G9eyQXlS tlvQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:sender:dkim-signature :dkim-signature; bh=IjwDU2yW/DdfRpONeIOTU6n235/C4HgJHizZx2B7kU4=; fh=CTsz/+DoDApYVXUD9GIrL49dSomFO1jxItc+MzMCJNk=; b=kSTCAk9PbHRfqlffRXCL5+YEnpdrCvSP01EBCE+j9k+XXgiNOBAJ8o/itEJHI2DZlg btQKFb6dQVY+2IDlPPb3bRQ0sUZ2OMydYT6cnFowxyqp6ZVRpRT8bH+iAGVKShVih4a8 DX2vp5zM80uPpa/f//Ee6cnqZdzCawBp8bobLDmREL7BMduCNTnXX2Z5s+hYU73z0E2T ObTa+Gkgm+4EQseqO2Yf9vC4qCpmCSudUQTrJ9eXgV+FesMQeijgTQEoUF1+tpeUumcN 8Sy4gc6wmzEqiCadRktzAmtlIbBP+flJvprs8+tXAAKEHpUrqpxR0bLHZqBSSMLpikyi +5aw==; darn=gnusha.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=h9T3orPW; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lucasbarbosafurtado0@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::62d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lucasbarbosafurtado0@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1762807646; x=1763412446; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=IjwDU2yW/DdfRpONeIOTU6n235/C4HgJHizZx2B7kU4=; b=WZwugDLbxeACZmhHmCQW6Qv6eCS5Gdckzw1hxUNW9aiXHaFoy3rBLbGa7hb08sCz9+ 6nk3RE98oIvKFLtyETF09ASOv6mev8NFomD1fOITNGUScMUX9tVNGsUYBC6JrDIqCxzl 2btVltsS3Ky59GKo6AD9qjqcKjlFiSwI2O3fLnWxtVzUzKdcZ6+gJd+85iRRxELsFeFu dXaU/Q7WnVe4Pp8pY3aSouuC5mN5K5cJDjGnDUbXE+DYLn9b1T6KF/tSoTtMby0Wu6vN 2zTCDrG/OlwlPbGhvS4OplIUarwSvYsSYNIM/9Fv/+pZSmWmOL+cicR36Wwl4Zq5KnZX Vg7g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1762807646; x=1763412446; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=IjwDU2yW/DdfRpONeIOTU6n235/C4HgJHizZx2B7kU4=; b=WRXQ9jkFkcpO40rTTmQ/s1TfqUACTmXWmDmwIPSTY6cIMrgaF1K7r/PTQaOMBg8MHf UNFeHEVSgckpMvdl/U9ZrczcsKjaOujpi+2HY+wfs8qwfhqdXlWPxcJ5QyvFfngV16Up RYoHVSan450ALvmS6q6DUm2yDchu8CKupJ8GSYjjyvTHJarZedvbkeVXhdCEFTi23eTe fbGqaMQ3uobW6+ZbkFXlj7kdM/sTH5Hy9aiJ8cNqPz9Fs/BreesD0miidNvECHpN/MPf 0gPaytE2Z7T782caXNRYX91YWMFcwQLN1MyLFVY6kDGJU0WR/p3u2kpK7Fwc+ScYwU6D YX1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1762807646; x=1763412446; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=IjwDU2yW/DdfRpONeIOTU6n235/C4HgJHizZx2B7kU4=; b=cUoKnlmXPXK7cotlFwg8BFb1zYZSifcHcsGadIJ6aK2ueu1X90HKEHUW+Oa3XXoWtC 2IUlhTJJLteBUj/A8Q7RXoFVnP4i7l7u7topGQNd7SUwN2sVNPi72pqePMbVP7Ix7giI G+PS7m8TWLI619BXuLdZVg5bh1iBdoXi7u4VDIenmEVMoHwmMEqSyySO0GMIEmKxvHK+ QyO82whCAEsQGUlirTzWY2sFD/tpTvlFdOpvh7wnHKCkPOHE43dcYx11JeUe1KQNixa8 fTDOkEesMupSrCJvMH4em5A2LBD3RkyRreUlkyEu6zoZ0xUBopfbapSHQpHYW/clnLsz f9/Q== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCW8K0GFd3YVY60JWPFJNAtoW8Ni34M/clsWUJcUn2/k9TjnDinc2h/bNtTQwDXemtHy6OeYrXv1voPs@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwPe2oqYjt+SEqz7mjH2BUKAfg/sgXfnpBBkhjG9MvneZhgCyDA 6dTT2WoiX8OXIdcqk+xWS0avCGHTxePS1D15qabQX6t7zsej+u2UchSS X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGCh2TGSdZZm+UxWYHPvQiKzpRICC601E0tJ1pTsKTCflBui8+wwG7qgYNjXqkuHUnpxDGB6g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6871:711:b0:3d3:b73d:38b7 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-3e7c24b3d39mr4668870fac.17.1762807645752; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 12:47:25 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h="Ae8XA+bRLKUSenVE+iSdcbMunH1xKeI9nNdd5LddpjVWOFIOXA==" Received: by 2002:a05:6870:13d0:b0:3db:9632:4d51 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-3e2f4d61a1dls1828709fac.1.-pod-prod-09-us; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 12:47:21 -0800 (PST) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWhJh2t5D6TGYaaXXzanYKTIC2QVRqvqEqgQKjyxLi0NZingYjPNqNlC/KF697iQBv+bZ8jhamgnh8v@googlegroups.com X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:2393:b0:441:8f74:fc4 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-4502a40ada6mr5289646b6e.65.1762807641006; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 12:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 2002:a05:6402:1513:b0:641:72ac:2762 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-64172ac2a4dmsa12; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 12:16:31 -0800 (PST) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCUBLbVsKZE7JKiqJNA/QXq8l87k+P0Qyzf/fhitDVrbHioCZc1paupo9pVIGHEILE8JpdUnkV98E/86@googlegroups.com X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3ccb:b0:b0c:b51b:81f6 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b72e04ca5ccmr956473766b.43.1762805789543; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 12:16:29 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1762805789; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=MgfUb/2kk7ZqygDygtVUpoCdjmZPSY4s7gg+QZyzwmzPGc3lHOwPUEQIFohwVBr6Dv EVIJcoDXUylTJ3HlqtC7ypM6Mi21u1Ga7YzmEoI9hfG2C4++D+iKTDiaAZ8naiCovsQR oLS54viflOQxMdN1N3w2cEO/VcZZwykdUoqwz6WkbEfPgg/yrNlXRSXPrvsOAY8JAnDi GW6OWPCteNEyRYaZlco/7cH10LsZk8bRUx6S4/MeXruiJQBoXbKMEc5pqtZ3gLdcJkGS jegQ1h7bSxyEz+ovBLwarc8hGyzTr+iP7vyvPuttjqSiDyJAGljOPbDM0waafftr/ob8 mExw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=xb87ovAhTnARmeWIpEJDcZnJSDgtGhaDy4u20pd1Oqg=; fh=dxg1Pe9F2807zq21yiryjf2GCsRqO1o3DM9OymEMtD0=; b=cHN5NgKOoYpTSE0JapezbDTskYP5f7+jmth3PcIAlDWIGHir2YUmj1jgLnVECGrXOT FS36/wJ2NdAVY+yW+EdeIQNNL2AsPRjcpHc+U4DV80+jmUpK3OwMqn1RpwtjRIGzHsYB ndyLZiADnTnBKsU2w5OI7FFmbrquRvF/Y6ok6ZmesvvZW/of75IjkYyVFr8RA4xcs36P L1WL+SVZI72LJVZ6dWebUp5nqDvANsEbvlzgi1rMcIXYqOWOJO014P81svKy2b9h1yS8 L2uCkFumLD/B8+levKqMi2vzlJJgyRQOjKjoM6aupHylZl+XUSe5mmc6OicTCo/BS1Lv ACJw==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=h9T3orPW; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lucasbarbosafurtado0@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::62d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lucasbarbosafurtado0@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Received: from mail-ej1-x62d.google.com (mail-ej1-x62d.google.com. [2a00:1450:4864:20::62d]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a640c23a62f3a-b72bf97d3cbsi61467266b.3.2025.11.10.12.16.29 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 10 Nov 2025 12:16:29 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lucasbarbosafurtado0@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::62d as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::62d; Received: by mail-ej1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b403bb7843eso627563966b.3 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 12:16:29 -0800 (PST) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXwlieDniGbGEsuJvFEQIDY52MPw50d3BPnaq/YrLW1NxY1Cev51RF7dU4gs0Y04FvmCv83NfRwPu+A@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsmJdPDzzlqNuXhj0LjBmSDL0k2FtUL4T/mOHpPcJO22KOtLjhlT7TdJAonxfa e6+Q35FkSgwCsttA2mlTe2yvnNenhJT6sIFkL2cfQ7A2w+1u0avjM4HtXQg9rtkQCQM/aIZmWiX iSykbxIpjWIrRNSHjAeHgkuAFlkwKTV4xJBSmAImSI5gCpoEJOd6NzZsq9/Tf3IXZxXfRld+mc5 OVLHaFqqUTp7ROBxfPtfYTQaFCX6/msmd/On0pc+X7W8e++Uem1Mw68Y7ULD6/AVw1hd4/qU60t Myq6MDmmHLB5/X1Mmh3MnsUd9/fEHg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3f11:b0:b40:cfe9:ed41 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b72e044fb41mr931649966b.34.1762805788934; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 12:16:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7U8YuMopR73k4XRYBA8DjhaGLJkyKPuXpxW9p7vmH45JHEyIj_oE_t4xk99hrNdvMGghpmooAMXOmWGaZ4UkwHPndzrpzIL0SX2SoTf0l3w=@proton.me> <7abf7055-6b85-492f-ada2-e0a517e93cf9n@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: From: Lucas Barbosa Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 16:46:24 -0300 X-Gm-Features: AWmQ_bnlDT_JabJv4378FdyAO-jovUzlcABBAVPmyZFYTquljst4lxJ1R3wZpF0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [BIP Proposal] Reduced Data Temporary Softfork To: Erik Aronesty Cc: Antoine Riard , Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000db85b60643433468" X-Original-Sender: lucasbarbosafurtado0@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=h9T3orPW; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lucasbarbosafurtado0@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::62d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lucasbarbosafurtado0@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --000000000000db85b60643433468 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >Okay, if you or anyone can show me an example of a "boring and unconcerning thing" that involves pre-signed transactions that use deep/OP_IF-containing Taptrees and timelocks, which predates the original softfork proposal, I will be happy to update the BIP. Saying "someone might be doing this" is simply frivolous obstructionism which, again, could be used to stop any attempt to change the consensus rules. Hello Dathon The responsibility to demonstrate this is yours, it is you who is hastily proposing an emergency change. the more information you can bring, the easier it will be for you to get what you want Em qua., 29 de out. de 2025, 23:57, Erik Aronesty escreveu: > >> Case law in the USA regarding illegal content has always rested squarely >> on those who: > > > 1 - provide broad public access, in this case a company like OpenSEA > (which has had to block content) > 2 - the original author > > if punishing "relays" was a thing, then every CISCO router, SMTP relay and > DISCORD server that provided access would be in court all day long > > instead, it's the users of the illegal data and the publishers that > actually wind up in trouble - not the internet providers > > the bitcoin ledger is neither a browser or web server, nor is it an image > uploader. there is zero ability to view images built into the system > > and even if it was > > the purpose of this software is to be a distributed and effectively > uncensorable ledger. > > hopefully it doesn't change because someone launched a meme campaign with > vague threats of legal action > > if a transaction has /no reasonable expectation of being mined/ (too > expensive to validate, too large, too low fees), there's also no reason to > relay it > > this is probably the best way to set policy > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAJowKgKBBa%2BvD%3D5X0VMV2OFiBBM23Ok6nmvfoLTr8fia141%3DFQ%40mail.gmail.com > > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAPbyeOFpVf9kWPzRZA9CZ--vpFZkKdroHf5nuMFV%3D_hse44i_g%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000db85b60643433468 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>Okay, if you or anyone can show me an example of a &q= uot;boring and unconcerning thing" that involves pre-signed transactio= ns that use deep/OP_IF-containing Taptrees and timelocks, which predates th= e original softfork proposal, I will be happy to update the BIP. Saying &qu= ot;someone might be doing this" is simply frivolous obstructionism whi= ch, again, could be used to stop any attempt to change the consensus rules.=

Hello Dathon
The responsibility to demonstrate this is yours, it is you who is ha= stily proposing an emergency change. the more information you can bring, th= e easier it will be for you to get what you want

Em qua., 29 de out. de 2025, 23:57, Erik Aron= esty <erik@q32.com> escreveu:
=

Case law in the= USA regarding illegal content has always rested squarely on those who:

=C2=A01 - provide broad public access, in this case a com= pany like OpenSEA (which has had to block content)
=C2=A02 - the origina= l author=C2=A0

if punishing "relays" was a thing, then eve= ry CISCO router, SMTP relay and DISCORD server that provided access would b= e in court all day long

instead, it's the users of the illegal d= ata and the publishers that actually wind up in trouble - not the internet = providers

the bitcoin ledger is neither a browser or web serv= er, nor is it an image uploader.=C2=A0 there is zero ability to view images= built into the system

and even if it was

the purpose of this= software is to be a distributed and effectively uncensorable ledger.=C2=A0=

hopefully it doesn't change because someone launched a meme ca= mpaign with vague threats of legal action

if a transaction has = /no reasonable expectation of being mined/ (too expensive to validate, too = large, too low fees), there's also no reason to relay it

=
this is probably the best way to set policy

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.=
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAJowKgKBBa%2= BvD%3D5X0VMV2OFiBBM23Ok6nmvfoLTr8fia141%3DFQ%40mail.gmail.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoind= ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/= msgid/bitcoindev/CAPbyeOFpVf9kWPzRZA9CZ--vpFZkKdroHf5nuMFV%3D_hse44i_g%40ma= il.gmail.com.
--000000000000db85b60643433468--