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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::1031]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d9443c01a7336-29f1738260bsi4251455ad.7.2025.12.15.11.10.04 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 15 Dec 2025 11:10:04 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of 151henry151@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1031 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1031; Received: by mail-pj1-x1031.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-349bb6f9c86so4949100a91.0 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2025 11:10:04 -0800 (PST) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCW7NQxSghznb5MPFM0FPkRjs7VEL80yyowT9JfolGwPKQIjCOcwxWriWWd93Gk7t/p1umEq59r6ISEb@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Gg: AY/fxX5Bn6hgkrz0y/8d4YC0k26tx18OCe1LfELsX1eflJ1NxRKOTu4FelpelxosIg0 3x0Y51tXecaBv9RskGWRz51LAkQJ0vMQ6a0sGJSkXJip697D2gV+puSPDH2UcQ1svQEoaZzgMmz oYlUag84mDwecoeu86HClGOTo7FexYptDBgTUyEvhJ3uTnaH5+d5ext2U9woE0kwDsi+7EwV0xV 4Nros+0aC/UKHfAd+KCDTEigyDNNqmJsI+9/79degchsUVTW2qDy4U5nntemjzOhXGQ7ypOJWDU wAweArPx6CDBmA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:2ccf:b0:340:e517:4e05 with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-34abd71f8e1mr12232046a91.12.1765825804208; Mon, 15 Dec 2025 11:10:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4355092f-4cd6-4e3f-9ae8-4823183ca731n@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: From: Henry Romp <151henry151@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2025 14:09:50 -0500 X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2p4EZlDDsAQW6aaGfYvc7q3NBgfgeAjSHHm2AqcIXkccRZeL5dkK_IlzO0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [Discussion] Year 2106 Timestamp Overflow - Proposal for uint64 Migration To: Garlo Nicon Cc: "Russell O'Connor" , Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cb8db50646025b7b" X-Original-Sender: 151Henry151@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=lAcVwGFk; spf=pass (google.com: domain of 151henry151@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1031 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=151henry151@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) --000000000000cb8db50646025b7b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, I see you're right=E2=80=94once MTP reaches 2^32 - 1, no valid timestam= p can exceed it, making the next block mathematically impossible. I was wrong about the halt. I still maintain my other points about timeline and opportunity costs. Henry *Henry Romp802-458-7299 <8024587299>* *151henry151@gmail.com <151henry151@gmail.com>* On Mon, Dec 15, 2025, 04:59 Garlo Nicon wrote: > > The blockchain won't "halt" at overflow, it will have validation > problems. > > These "validation problems" will be quite serious. For example: it will b= e > possible to produce a chain with a bigger chainwork, and pass it to the o= ld > nodes. > > Which means, that the chain can go forward for the new nodes, while being > perceived as a constantly reorged, by the old implementation. > > And then, the question is: do we want to design a new soft-fork in a way, > where it would be seen as constantly-reorged chain by the old nodes? > > > The overflow doesn't automatically stop the chain. > > It will, because overflowed timestamps from 1970 will be rejected by all > old nodes. > > > At that point there are no more valid blocks that can be appended to th= e > chain. > > As long as the chainwork won't overflow, you can always reorg the old > blocks. If that reorg will be deterministic, and accepted by hashrate > majority, then it will be seen only by old nodes. New nodes can see a > stable chain, always going forward, beyond 0xffffffff. > > Anyway, it will be just one-bit increment per 136 years. > > niedz., 14 gru 2025 o 15:09 'Russell O'Connor' via Bitcoin Development > Mailing List napisa=C5=82(a): > >> On Sat, Dec 13, 2025 at 5:05=E2=80=AFAM Henry Romp <151henry151@gmail.co= m> wrote: >> >>> The blockchain won't "halt" at overflow, it will have validation >>> problems. The overflow doesn't automatically stop the chain. Nodes woul= d >>> continue with wrapped-around timestamps (though this would cause some >>> problems). >>> >> >> Yes the blockchain halts. >> >> The timestamps are required to eventually increase; more specifically >> each new timestamp is required to be strictly greater than the MTP >> timestamp. Assuming these timestamps stay reasonably accurate up to the >> end then at best you can squeeze out a few more blocks by lying about th= e >> time, but eventually the MTP timestamp will reach its maximum value. At >> that point there are no more valid blocks that can be appended to the ch= ain. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAMZUoKkXQv%2BLO_3iWf1_PnPM= R7ocO0ddHZhfZo63Umst%3DpVCPg%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAPnXYtPdbFwc1mOsP2eHQBwuJhn2XxLCWC-pt6%2BN-bu3BRRbiA%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000cb8db50646025b7b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ah, I see you're right=E2=80=94once MTP reaches = 2^32 - 1, no valid timestamp can exceed it, making the next block mathemati= cally impossible.
I was wrong about the halt. I stil= l maintain my other points about timeline and opportunity costs.
=

Henry


= Henry Romp
802-458-7299


<= div dir=3D"ltr">
<= /div>

On Mon, Dec 15, 2025, 04:59 Garlo Ni= con <garlonicon@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
> The blockchain won't "halt" at overflow, it wi= ll have validation problems.

These "validation problems" = will be quite serious. For example: it will be possible to produce a chain = with a bigger chainwork, and pass it to the old nodes.

Which means, = that the chain can go forward for the new nodes, while being perceived as a= constantly reorged, by the old implementation.

And then, the questi= on is: do we want to design a new soft-fork in a way, where it would be see= n as constantly-reorged chain by the old nodes?

> The overflow do= esn't automatically stop the chain.

It will, because overflowed = timestamps from 1970 will be rejected by all old nodes.

> At that= point there are no more valid blocks that can be appended to the chain.
As long as the chainwork won't overflow, you can always reorg= the old blocks. If that reorg will be deterministic, and accepted by hashr= ate majority, then it will be seen only by old nodes. New nodes can see a s= table chain, always going forward, beyond 0xffffffff.

<= div>Anyway,=C2=A0it will be just one-bit increment per 136 years.

nied= z., 14 gru 2025 o 15:09=C2=A0'Russell O'Connor' via Bitcoin Dev= elopment Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> napi= sa=C5=82(a):
On Sat, Dec 13, 2025 at 5:05=E2=80=AFAM Henry Romp <151henry151@g= mail.com> wrote:
The blockchain won't &= quot;halt" at overflow, it will have validation problems. The overflow= doesn't automatically stop the chain. Nodes would continue with wrappe= d-around timestamps (though this would cause some problems).

Yes the blockchain halts.
The timestamps are required to eventually increase; more specif= ically each new timestamp is required to be strictly greater than the MTP t= imestamp.=C2=A0 Assuming these timestamps stay reasonably accurate up to th= e end then at best you can squeeze out a few more blocks by lying about the= time, but eventually the MTP timestamp will reach its maximum value.=C2=A0= At that point there are no more valid blocks that can be appended to the c= hain.

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