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[185.70.43.22]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 2adb3069b0e04-59ba1018b2esi41875e87.1.2026.01.14.07.33.21 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 14 Jan 2026 07:33:21 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of darosior@protonmail.com designates 185.70.43.22 as permitted sender) client-ip=185.70.43.22; Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2026 15:33:16 +0000 To: Murch , Sjors Provoost From: "'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Addressing remaining points on BIP 54 Message-ID: <_C0iWeaJ-v24dZgcdCnKZKEgK9E493DmpG_-wD1NZnOAuECi97dZpVLuZxkONIfZjTe7km_TWFdSFfmSzVWfJ5Lkz6JTc8JwDOTg9XAInVo=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1B807731-DC2A-4E59-B462-5C210EF1FB73@sprovoost.nl> References: <05f5b0ee-b487-4733-9860-ac0705b6b901n@googlegroups.com> <9C946151-D6DD-4CB7-B524-15FD9F625D9D@sprovoost.nl> <492f9bba-8a1f-4fa2-8618-98bd564a6178@murch.one> <1B807731-DC2A-4E59-B462-5C210EF1FB73@sprovoost.nl> Feedback-ID: 7060259:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: a391af9e918bc73c2e9607e0b330212c2eff1276 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Sender: darosior@protonmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@protonmail.com header.s=protonmail3 header.b=qO3u+dDQ; spf=pass (google.com: domain of darosior@protonmail.com designates 185.70.43.22 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=darosior@protonmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=protonmail.com X-Original-From: Antoine Poinsot Reply-To: Antoine Poinsot Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Thanks everyone for the comments. Sjors, transactions are serialized in modern blocks as described by Murch. Murch, for the purpose of computing the Merkle root transactions are serial= ized without witness data. Best, Antoine On Wednesday, January 14th, 2026 at 5:23 AM, Sjors Provoost wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hi Murch, >=20 > You're referring to the "serialization with witness data" defined in BIP = 141. >=20 > But that's not how the transaction is serialised in a block, since the wi= tness is > segregated. >=20 > > The witness is committed in a tree that is nested into the block's exis= ting >=20 > merkle root via the coinbase transaction for the purpose of making this B= IP > soft fork compatible. A future hard fork can place this tree in its own b= ranch. >=20 > As long as the miner doesn't touch the SegWit OP_RETURN , which also comm= its > to the coinbase witness, it can safely use the legacy transaction seriali= sation. >=20 > - Sjors >=20 > [0] https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0141.mediawiki#transa= ction-id >=20 > > Op 14 jan 2026, om 01:23 heeft Murch murch@murch.one het volgende gesch= reven: > >=20 > > Hi Sjors, > >=20 > > On 2026-01-08 00:30, Sjors Provoost wrote: > >=20 > > > The approach suggested by Towns [4] of appending a 0-sat OP_RETURN ou= tput with > > > padding so a 4-byte nonce lands in the final 64-byte SHA256 chunk is = probably > > > better, but not because like nLockTime it has a small hashing midstat= e > > > benefit. It's easier to implement. > > > I can=E2=80=99t access Delving right now to read AJ=E2=80=99s comment= , but a small nit on the idea of using an additional output: BIP=E2=80=AF14= 1 requires coinbase transaction inputs to have a 32-byte witness. Since the= witness section follows the outputs in the serialization, the bytes before= the `nLocktime` in a coinbase transaction are the witness of the coinbase = input, not the last output script. > >=20 > > -Murch >=20 >=20 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoinde= v/1B807731-DC2A-4E59-B462-5C210EF1FB73%40sprovoost.nl. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 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