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Tue, 28 Apr 2026 13:46:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:6ccc:b0:8e8:ffd2:efa5 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-8f7d6c49516mr632985385a.11.1777409217487; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 13:46:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:a05:690c:628a:b0:7b3:443:26a9 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-7b7135fd0d9ms7b3; Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:02:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:6604:b0:79a:c7f8:d9a0 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-7af712830e8mr228899087b3.33.1776247357734; Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:02:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:02:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <96E39817-8253-4AF6-86FF-E9573BC08895@mattcorallo.com> Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Deactivating ECDSA/Schnorr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_160590_2019150890.1776247357344" X-Original-Sender: alexhultman@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) ------=_Part_160590_2019150890.1776247357344 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_160591_1662067973.1776247357344" ------=_Part_160591_1662067973.1776247357344 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I=E2=80=99m quite confident the market is going to pick the side that ha= s=20 something like 100x less supply, especially if it avoids burning any coins= =20 to the maximum extent possible=E2=80=A6the law of supply and demand doesn= =E2=80=99t care=20 all that much about our feelings on the matter. If you start freezing coins, demand is going to 0 whether you have 100x=20 less supply or not. Chain that walks back on its original rules will have 0= =20 demand. onsdag 15 april 2026 kl. 09:55:51 UTC+2 skrev Erik Aronesty: > Well, I guess we have to trust that the market isn't stupid and won't=20 > invest in spurious or forged results. I guess that's rare enough. =20 > Crypographically negligible. > > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 3:29=E2=80=AFPM Matt Corallo =20 > wrote: > >> Firstly I want to echo everything conduition said but I want to raise=20 >> one further point. >> >> You don=E2=80=99t get to decide. Nor do I. The market does. >> >> Both bitcoins will, without question, exist - one where insecure spend= =20 >> paths are disabled (with the exceptions conduition raises, and probably= =20 >> any more we can come up with [1])) and one where they are not, and the= =20 >> market will decide which it prefers. >> >> I=E2=80=99m quite confident the market is going to pick the side that ha= s=20 >> something like 100x less supply, especially if it avoids burning any coi= ns=20 >> to the maximum extent possible=E2=80=A6the law of supply and demand does= n=E2=80=99t care=20 >> all that much about our feelings on the matter. >> >> Matt >> >> >> [1] I=E2=80=99ve noted before we should allow for both seedphrase recove= ry=20 >> schemes as well as a commit-before-Q-day-reveal-after scheme to allow=20 >> anyone who has keys to non-seedphrase coins to retain ownership without= =20 >> having to go to chain. This may bee important, for example, for the owne= r=20 >> of the patoshi coins. >> >> On Apr 14, 2026, at 14:51, Erik Aronesty wrote: >> >> =EF=BB=BF >> Deactivating ECDSA/Schnorr based schemes should not be discussed=20 >> seriously. =20 >> >> You give people alternatives, yes. I'm a big fan of quantum optionality.= =20 >> >> But we cannot have a forced vaccination situation.=20 >> >> >> There is simply no credible way you can convince somebody who is=20 >> sovereign that their encryption algorithm is broken aside from breaking = it.=20 >> >> People can send to bad keys today. >> >> There are lots of op codes that let people shoot themselves in the foot= =20 >> >> Bitcoin is not a nanny state. >> >> "oh no someone might break satoshi's keys"=20 >> >> Let them. if satoshi's 50 Bitcoin stash keys serve to be the bounty tha= t=20 >> propels humanity to a future of limitless unbounded magical computing th= at=20 >> is not a problem we need to solve right now.=20 >> >> The worst possible thing we could do is confiscate everybody's coin and= =20 >> move to a NISD approved algorithm on the say so of large government fund= ed=20 >> organizations. >> >> That sounds dystopian at best.=20 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s=20 >> "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n=20 >> email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion visit=20 >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAJowKgJcGTvkzjkRN3cd8LRkfa= zWycSp8p6oOd5D5dtEYRaB1w%40mail.gmail.com=20 >> >> . >> >> --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= a59b0721-4a72-4a6e-b30b-61aa10f032bcn%40googlegroups.com. ------=_Part_160591_1662067973.1776247357344 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m quite confident= the market is going to pick the side that has something like 100x less sup= ply, especially if it avoids burning any coins to the maximum extent possib= le=E2=80=A6the law of supply and demand doesn=E2=80=99t care all that much = about our feelings on the matter.

If you start freezing c= oins, demand is going to 0 whether you have 100x less supply or not. Chain = that walks back on its original rules will have 0 demand.

onsdag 15 april= 2026 kl. 09:55:51 UTC+2 skrev Erik Aronesty:
Well, I guess we have t= o trust that the market isn't stupid and won't invest in spurious o= r forged results.=C2=A0 I guess that's rare enough.=C2=A0 Crypographica= lly negligible.


On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 3:29=E2=80=AFPM M= att Corallo <lf-l...@mattcora= llo.com> wrote:
Firstly I = want to echo everything=C2=A0conduition said but I want to raise one fu= rther point.

You don=E2=80=99t get to decide. Nor do I. The market does.=

Both bitco= ins will, without question, exist - one where insecure spend paths are disa= bled (with the exceptions=C2=A0conduition raises, and probably a= ny more we can come up with [1])) and one where they are not, and the marke= t will decide which it prefers.

I=E2=80=99m quite confident the market is going= to pick the side that has something like 100x less supply, especially if i= t avoids burning any coins to the maximum extent possible=E2=80=A6the law o= f supply and demand doesn=E2=80=99t care all that much about our feelings o= n the matter.

Matt


[1] I=E2=80=99ve noted b= efore we should allow for both seedphrase recovery schemes as well as a com= mit-before-Q-day-reveal-after scheme to allow anyone who has keys to non-se= edphrase coins to retain ownership without having to go to chain. This may = bee important, for example, for the owner of the patoshi coins.

On A= pr 14, 2026, at 14:51, Erik Aronesty <er...@q32.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Deactivating ECDSA/Schnorr based schemes should not be discussed seriousl= y.=C2=A0=C2=A0

You give = people alternatives, yes. I'm a big fan of quantum optionality.=C2=A0

But we cannot have a forc= ed vaccination situation.=C2=A0


There is simply no credible way you c= an convince somebody who is sovereign that their encryption algorithm is br= oken aside from breaking it.=C2=A0

People can send to bad keys today.

There are lots of op codes that let people shoot them= selves in the foot=C2=A0

Bitcoin is not a nanny state.

"oh no someone might break satoshi's keys"=C2=A0
=

Let them.=C2=A0 if satoshi= 9;s 50 Bitcoin stash keys serve to be the bounty that propels humanity to a= future of limitless unbounded magical computing that is not a problem we n= eed to solve right now.=C2=A0

The worst possible thing we could do is confiscate everybody's co= in and move to a NISD approved algorithm on the say so of large government = funded organizations.

Th= at sounds dystopian at best.=C2=A0







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