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[103.168.172.137]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e9e14a558f8ab-433797053e9si3411665ab.0.2025.11.09.13.34.35 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 09 Nov 2025 13:34:35 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.137 as permitted sender) client-ip=103.168.172.137; Received: from phl-compute-06.internal (phl-compute-06.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailflow.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29831380128; Sun, 9 Nov 2025 16:34:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-01 ([10.202.2.162]) by phl-compute-06.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 09 Nov 2025 16:34:34 -0500 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeffedrtdeggdduleeiheduucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceu rghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujf gurhepfffhvfevuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddtvdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgvrhcu vfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrh hnpedttdegtdffteeukeffhfffkeekiefhteduvdetjeeujeffgeevgefhudetjefhveen ucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmpdhpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgnecuve hluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepphgvthgvsehp vghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopeegpdhmohguvgepshhmthhpoh huthdprhgtphhtthhopegrnhhtohhinhgvrdhrihgrrhgusehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmpdhr tghpthhtohepsghithgtohhinhguvghvsehgohhoghhlvghgrhhouhhpshdrtghomhdprh gtphhtthhopegurghthhhonhhohhhmsehprhhothhonhdrmhgvpdhrtghpthhtohepvghr ihhksehqfedvrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sun, 9 Nov 2025 16:34:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 14BE39FD38; Sun, 9 Nov 2025 21:34:33 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2025 21:34:33 +0000 From: Peter Todd To: dathonohm@proton.me Cc: Erik Aronesty , Antoine Riard , Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [BIP Proposal] Reduced Data Temporary Softfork Message-ID: References: <7U8YuMopR73k4XRYBA8DjhaGLJkyKPuXpxW9p7vmH45JHEyIj_oE_t4xk99hrNdvMGghpmooAMXOmWGaZ4UkwHPndzrpzIL0SX2SoTf0l3w=@proton.me> <7abf7055-6b85-492f-ada2-e0a517e93cf9n@googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="T8wj8FH898AdZ2TM" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: pete@petertodd.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=FLt2wkNn; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.137 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --T8wj8FH898AdZ2TM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, Nov 08, 2025 at 12:51:49AM +0000, dathonohm via Bitcoin Development Mailing List wrote: > Hi all - > > BIP repo maintainers [requested](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/2017#issuecomment-3462134337) that I update this list before pushing a significant change, so I am doing that now. > > Please consider this my formal request for the BIP PR to be unlocked so that discussion can resume. I see that a block-height-based activation date has been proposed, approximately Feb 1st 2026 depending on how fast blocks are mined. Your BIP does not discuss the fact that such a UASF activation is highly likely to lead to two different coins, the unmodified chain accepted by the majority of hash power, and the minority hash power fork. If you thought you could get supermajority hashpower support, you would have simply proposed a hash-power activation, e.g. the 95% treshold used by my own BIP-65 soft-fork, CheckLockTimeVerify. Clearly you do not believe you can get supermajority hashpower support. Even without commenting on the desirability of such a fork, you need to openly discuss it in your BIP and explain how the community will be able to deal with it. For example, how wallets can safely "split" coins between either side of the fork, and how you intend to modify Bitcoin addresses so people don't accidentally send coins to the wrong side. Of course - again without commenting on the desirability of this fork - I personally believe that such a short timeframe is utterly absurd for a UASF with no miner activation mechanism at all. > This update addresses several concerns from the previous draft: The BIP continues to fail to answer obvious questions. For example the very first paragraph in your technical rational states: > ''Why limit scriptPubKeys to 34 bytes?''' > > scriptPubKeys must be stored indefinitely in quick-access memory (often RAM) by all fully validating nodes. > It generally cannot be pruned. > It is also a direct cost to the sender rather than the receiver. For these reasons, modern usage is all 34 bytes or smaller in practice: > actual spending conditions have been moved to the witness, and the scriptPubKey simply commits to them in advance with a hash. Obviously, entities that actually need to publish data in scriptPubKey's will simply use more of them instead of OP_Return. You write this section as though your argument is an actual rationale. But clearly, this rational is simply bogus. You're actual rationale appears to be simply a moral one: you want to put restrictions on transactions to send a *message* that use of Bitcoin for data publishing is wrong. Even though otherwise you appear to admit that this BIP will not in fact provide any real technical obstacle to publishing data in Bitcoin (as me publishing the previous draft in the chain itself proved). Unless you have an actual technical justification, arguments such as the above are highly dishonest and need to be removed from your BIP. -- https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/aREI6ZdvJmsZ-J6U%40petertodd.org. --T8wj8FH898AdZ2TM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmkRCNkACgkQLly11TVR LzcydA/8Cn6iL+a2dEKT+Yh8i3OePC6fkx+rPjHKa7NztFKIuGORFqj60/lrH4ai LRkzMlIKK8s6s+sgv9H1gu9/2mpuhSyJoJBWfYIaixJkBYuLV4tG4Qp7e4BeoQeF krff1ExNSsh1jiY4UGDVe7pPWkJ81jCp+EvPGW7RUTco/Dj+Fa2fZMfRfdZYBzxM iN66Hyz3y4Psr9eRz5qfDUMexbiWsz6997iF7njzvid/4OHtYqCvm9XdQPHZ4VuR lDrhA1QGuRSEpBuCELX6LAsIQcqeMAw33pba0tepCMNGgGE0YUSkeAIWoPnoi252 oblJVEDYApWzzvMlJ3WIRj662MMdM28qdTF3bAr1QFFImFwT2UhA5jz5swDiCr/H 5a76hFsuXFMZKVt5GFs7OtpMJZaNSYw0n04XxtWEGuvpV/84zfDp6o3wLrr5yGU4 25ZiOgMBL7Wkg4R6fwn6Z9VlNDRML6sur3YdcoC/uJdXhXwQQIyhrpDOjJlFWrwO O3Gbb8HZtyVLDgh+wiXw0pFdqUue3aDyG8p/JMV55VkoE53k8yGJsm9tWWS65ELe TNTjk0rNXbmv+/sJQIuH626w6uo8CxQhieYJy45Hx6oKkUjmFK1tDVMZ6BpaR8MT 9ZgmKAnq9q41DMMf1oW0sKsVBuVzBzCFrcepuMqcacj7nko7Ilo= =Jb4l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --T8wj8FH898AdZ2TM--