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[2620:6e:a000:1::99]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 98e67ed59e1d1-3613fb2d478si170220a91.2.2026.04.19.12.43.16 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 19 Apr 2026 12:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lf-lists@mattcorallo.com designates 2620:6e:a000:1::99 as permitted sender) client-ip=2620:6e:a000:1::99; X-DKIM-Note: Keys used to sign are likely public at X-DKIM-Note: https://as397444.net/dkim/mattcorallo.com and X-DKIM-Note: https://as397444.net/dkim/clients.mail.as397444.net X-DKIM-Note: For more info, see https://as397444.net/dkim/ Received: by mail.as397444.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) (Exim) (envelope-from ) id 1wEY2x-000000004PF-0vN2; Sun, 19 Apr 2026 19:43:13 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2026 15:43:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] PQC - What is our Goal, Even? From: Matt Corallo To: conduition Cc: Ethan Heilman , bitcoindev@googlegroups.com References: <2b8d2a1b-9e9c-4918-9ac7-4bdcb15f5886@mattcorallo.com> <39f3c26e-2cb5-4dcb-a269-78c793174b2a@mattcorallo.com> <71374026-6365-45fa-8168-ff1c8cb83dc9@mattcorallo.com> Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <71374026-6365-45fa-8168-ff1c8cb83dc9@mattcorallo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed X-Original-Sender: lf-lists@mattcorallo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@mattcorallo.com header.s=1776626462 header.b=U6972IHq; dkim=pass header.i=@clients.mail.as397444.net header.s=1776626465 header.b=UWlvtA2p; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lf-lists@mattcorallo.com designates 2620:6e:a000:1::99 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lf-lists@mattcorallo.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=mattcorallo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) On 4/19/26 12:37 PM, Matt Corallo wrote: >>> I think the gap between our views is that I don't buy that the "percentage harm reduction" >>> outcome is all that interesting. Sure, there's some % where it certainly is, but its probably in >>> the 99+% range, not in the 75-90% range. I think maybe the biggest gap is I just don't find any >>> "solution" that results in 10-20% of bitcoin (*especially* active bitcoin people hold keys to >>> that made some progress in migrating but maybe screwed up address reuse) being stolen as at all >>> interesting. If we manage to get 90% of active coins secured and then 10-20% of active wallets >>> get some of their funds stolen, have we actually accomplished something grand, or is Bitcoin's >>> reputation so shot that we might as well pack it up and go work on some new fresh chain that is >>> PQC from day one? I'm fairly confident the answer is the second, not just in that "we"'ve failed, >>> but that the market will see it the same way. >> >> Am I reading this right? You think it'd be better to abandon the entire chain if a CRQC can steal >> more than 10% of the active coin supply? That's a bleak outlook. I hope you change your mind on >> this. I hope even more that we can prevent such theft from happening in the first place. But >> again, debating P2TRv2 and P2MR is irrelevant to that goal if you assume address reuse will be >> rampant and exploitable. > > Yes, you are reading me right. I genuinely don't see why we should care about a bitcoin if some > nontrivial portion of wallets *that "upgraded" to be quantum-secure* get their funds stolen by a > quantum computer. The amount of reputational damage from this isn't trivial, but maybe more > importantly what on earth do we think the point of bitcoin is if its genuinely that hard to secure? It was pointed out to me that this was maybe a bit ambiguous. By "active coin supply", I'm really talking about the coins which did use a PQC wallet, were theoretically "upgraded" to be safe, but then got screwed anyway, possibly just because of what some other sending wallet did and not any bad decisions on their (wallet's) part. They still ended up losing funds just because someone else screwed up. I also have similar but maybe not as extreme reservations around broader coin supply, but that is a separate topic. Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/ad1aca9e-c3b4-48ef-92ac-b44f98078d98%40mattcorallo.com.