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[172.104.61.193]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 98e67ed59e1d1-36bc07bab33si225503a91.3.2026.05.31.00.12.26 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 31 May 2026 00:12:26 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of aj@erisian.com.au designates 172.104.61.193 as permitted sender) client-ip=172.104.61.193; Received: from aj@azure.erisian.com.au by cerulean.erisian.com.au with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1wTaLN-0001z1-1c; Sun, 31 May 2026 17:12:23 +1000 Received: by email (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sun, 31 May 2026 17:12:18 +1000 Date: Sun, 31 May 2026 17:12:18 +1000 From: Anthony Towns To: Murch Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] BIP 3 and issues on BIPs Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_bar: / X-Original-Sender: aj@erisian.com.au X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of aj@erisian.com.au designates 172.104.61.193 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aj@erisian.com.au Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) On Thu, May 28, 2026 at 11:28:49AM -0700, Murch wrote: > BIP3 > already recommends that the Rationale should record relevant objections o= r > important concerns that were raised and addressed as this proposal was > developed. Right, I'm particularly referring to issues that aren't (sufficiently) addressed here. If it helps, consider the user story: "As a BIP author, if there's a problem/concern with my (draft) BIP that I don't currently know how to address (or perhaps don't currently have time to address), how should I track that concern and ensure that it's known to potential collaborators/implementers?" My previous best answer for APO was "file an issue against bitcoin-inquisition/bitcoin" which doesn't feel very satisfactory. > Open issues are also already often recorded in Draft BIPs. Can you point to some examples? That sounds like a match for what I was thinking. ("git grep -i open.issue" in the master branch has no hits, afaics) > We now > allow linking to multiple relevant discussions=E2=80=94new threads should= be added > as a document matures. In an ideal world this would already cover at leas= t > the first two classes of feedback. I think there probably should be a second space for issues that the author disputes; that may happen due to the criticisms being invalid, or the author being unreasonable -- having a third party being able to make a "yeah, this is a reasonable thing for people to be aware of" without compromising the "BIPs are owned by their authors" principle would be valuable. > In principle I am open to the idea to collect a summary of the discussion > and dissent in a dedicated space, but there was hardly any commentary eve= n > when anyone could post it without any friction. >From my perspective, the comments wiki wasn't valuable for either summaries (it just contains random people's hot-takes on the topic) or for discussion (there's not a wide range of people responding to issues). So the friction there is just "reading/commenting is a complete waste of time". A list of open issues that the author agrees are worth paying attention to in their own BIP would be worth paying attention to, I think, except for the "oh, the game theory optimal approach is to reject all open issues; that way more people will think my BIP is perfect" flaw. > Why should we expect this > more arduous approach to have more adoption than the comment system? My > expectation would be that going via pull requests and curation would not > create more commentary, but the same amount of commentary would increase > work and decision making for the BIP Editors, especially if the expectati= on > is that BIP Editors collect such feedback for BIPs when the authors or > dissenters do not submit it. I think the purpose would be to summarise commentary, not generate it. For example, if you wanted to know "what are the concerns people have with BIP 119 so I can judge them for myself", how would you get that answer? Or, if you asked an AI, how would it generate a good answer? I think the only real approach is to scour the archives of this list, delving, optech, various pull requests, and maybe also IRC logs or twitter debates or podcast or talk transcripts? > > I think this would be a substantial improvement on the state of the art > > for things like BIP 39 and its "Unanimously discourage for implementati= on" > > criticisms,[=E2=80=A6] > This issue has already been addressed. When BIP3 was deployed, I removed = all > Comment URL headers that linked to empty wikis, and only left those that = had > content.=C2=A0BIP3 empowers=C2=B9 BIP Owners to decide whether to remove = or keep > Comment Summary and Comment URL from their BIPs. To be fair, this > information may need to be spread more broadly. Hmm, filed as https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/2184 maybe. > > [=E2=80=A6] or, eg, creating issues against bitcoin-inquisition/bitcoin= [0], or commenting on old, closed PRs [1]. > The latter was my mistake. I should have just emailed BIP authors directl= y > instead of commenting on the ancient PRs that submitted the corresponding > documents, or opened up a PR to propose the changes to get the authors=E2= =80=99 > input on them. That wasn't meant as a criticism; just trying to figure out something better to do in future. Cheers, aj --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= ahvfUgpqT3KSAvIz%40erisian.com.au.