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[103.168.172.145]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a92af1059eb24-137f558dd4dsi603360c88.7.2026.06.08.03.05.08 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 08 Jun 2026 03:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.145 as permitted sender) client-ip=103.168.172.145; Received: from phl-compute-01.internal (phl-compute-01.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailfout.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64ADBEC0215; Mon, 8 Jun 2026 06:05:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-frontend-03 ([10.202.2.162]) by phl-compute-01.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 08 Jun 2026 06:05:07 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: dmFkZTF18rbpnoEy0Pt1a8Dy1L+/dDAuA5S6lRONI/8Z5hGL12t+ZxstKltWhKImiV62Fy d4ShI203Bzh5GZ1sJRq+Ban8Tm8YjFqKOS1q80NF00w+UjjsdPG3r4n4rczURjKX40z34q RHw9EJRH3npir1AiNAMkObjoRxNZ/eF8FodmZ2M/4TMw5ty8A42v5mv8L+CtI4VvuuE7wz qKhVszLeOf8uPtZ6XUwzF6foF1gA/AhNUoeNmQOapTdpCqZcSwCDTugS7AcTyzB18QwpO2 7LYdsa+LUQKZ++8lQdbKucbkGYLd3dKeqY1VfbzRfKCvWy4C498hX041KboYY/e68Z5Wh4 dHrZ1aX2xy9bQS16+3KqGwpIw8i+fXp2JvaMcD2Xh+bxn//m4BxEoH4c/qlxamBiECrjUC OdVMekwzA8hhyUrs4hAtMBlQ3951LuTfhWEcSyt5uvnAMO0OB3HBI/OQ8LnjgtrujjKBos vpY1GTH99zHfJbS9iCzgARjWQda+Rj+D4Wa5QxZ4iEN6knMuXeX/+njFjHy/xAy/VfH1Qc qDr15nvSaJSgpuo1UBiZgcps+bbzsZuEQMp0SLiJ7rVYC0nH/NK5TGH+5akd+92qwR5EpZ Lko/2iXlpkaSTR7vs51f2VHpdkXhtfufse85RktmJ+LsCxPZqJpB1MO3yLng X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 8 Jun 2026 06:05:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3DEEE9FCA1; Mon, 8 Jun 2026 10:04:56 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2026 10:04:56 +0000 From: Peter Todd To: Anthony Towns Cc: Murch , bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5Bbitcoindev=5D_One_Time_Signatures_=E2=89=A0_One_Message?= =?UTF-8?Q?_Signed?= Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FlobXqGJ4KNe3ikf" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: pete@petertodd.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm1 header.b=Gkuj3iRy; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.145 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --FlobXqGJ4KNe3ikf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, Jun 05, 2026 at 05:54:50PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Thu, Jun 04, 2026 at 11:01:25AM +0000, Peter Todd wrote: > > Note that you can design a message signing scheme where you can use a pubkey to > > sign a merkle tree of messages. In the case of a transaction, multiple > > conflicting versions of the transaction with different fee rates. > > There's a balance to be had between what's considered part of the message > signing scheme versus what's part of the scripting language. > > The scheme above could also be thought of as signing a single message > "spend this utxo is valid if this script's conditions are meant", > where the script is "or(fee <= 0.5, and(nSequence >= 100, fee <= 1.0), > and(nSequence >= 1000, fee <= 30.0))" No, that's a very different scheme. Also, I believe it is vulnerable to miners simply picking the best possible fee rate for them; nSequence isn't big enough to avoid being guessed. Indeed, I neglected to point out something important in the above: you probably want to include secret nonces (or similar) in each individual branch of the signature tree, to ensure that different versions of it can't be brute forced. Thus to reveal a new option for miners, you make public a previously secret nonce. 128-bits would be sufficiently large to prevent brute-forcing. -- https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/aiaTyHPHzrj3iZ_8%40petertodd.org. --FlobXqGJ4KNe3ikf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmomk8YACgkQLly11TVR Lzfrhg/+IAUitDWE6TT1e89ASV1AbmHQ7TeiKLj1gIw5ZeCvjyDK+dCP30Cr8ld5 Za0HcGGR7H0slwas68LG2geEciXjjBwwCHzcuDMRXDTXGyRTxwNc7CQUgszNsors FU2pSI6aNMFX/oWJSgrNyt6uUScno2wzVF4R+UJOAYhUeixS4NkdxhNcaF1uWZt+ /tYYQiqVu5JMTBkN3IrtiUgFrPm/vij4JgxLOX/N6PcfIVFzfvrcwNuDVzhO+lJT EZbkVz1l4F8tgAOPrdUFMOK/yhuKy+6PeWa38Qsaao8U9QdAesvjxrFj8W9Q4GWF EH37hwQVlgRHq6kaJ7A0zh3D44PReetFi/ZtoXR16XA0grdq2wqDiVwHSDDdqMAx tYwsBGtfJTrMq7KcWF4yMajFZQtMIgAwAaPS7zEH5hkMcceNggyaGLQmztNG+8GT pboq5HcpWR4lOesGjMNEABP4AnoKV9h9wEMa0BeYT8Kxsn9s5O3foGsa/9RWe+FG 6qySGPD9sT3H6tN/MEYAt6k0ecs7Y2EGG60oPmc/TA7voe+zq2kpQESyevB8ksOc 7f7DUOlN6fhoH+iA3ZgLwE7yca4YYbTeACN1Ts/TmQ8oF+wzvgSRwRtuqk2KjmDL Tp9Qr3jBRqMLyNCfIQjYnYifg9LncU+LFuGjFMFoKnY3XGfMNgM= =g9O5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FlobXqGJ4KNe3ikf--