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[79.135.106.97]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-63e814b0616si94047a12.5.2025.10.26.21.22.39 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 26 Oct 2025 21:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dathonohm@proton.me designates 79.135.106.97 as permitted sender) client-ip=79.135.106.97; Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2025 04:22:35 +0000 To: Jameson Lopp From: dathonohm via Bitcoin Development Mailing List Cc: "bitcoindev@googlegroups.com" Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [BIP Proposal] Reduced Data Temporary Softfork Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Feedback-ID: 164672733:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 3435e41771b86d4d97e53526120cddc4ef4a9294 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="b1=_fLCtLS6NgLh1aR4i9dmg7X9ThcJh4eicQZ6VX6i7AZA" X-Original-Sender: dathonohm@proton.me X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@proton.me header.s=protonmail header.b=czYHKa4z; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dathonohm@proton.me designates 79.135.106.97 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dathonohm@proton.me; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=proton.me X-Original-From: dathonohm@proton.me Reply-To: dathonohm@proton.me Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --b1=_fLCtLS6NgLh1aR4i9dmg7X9ThcJh4eicQZ6VX6i7AZA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jameson - You mention "technical concerns" but don't give any examples. Would you min= d sharing one? You also mention "the underlying implication of using legal coercion to req= uire miners and other network participants to comply with arbitrary legal a= nd moral frameworks", but I don't think the BIP implies this at all. The BIP merely highlights a legal risk Bitcoin Core 30 has created for node= operators for no good reason, and attempts to eliminate it. No "coercion" = is implied. You and anyone else who are fine shouldering this risk are free= to stay on the old data-friendly chain. I doubt you will have much company= , though. Best, Dathon On Sunday, October 26th, 2025 at 2:49 PM, Jameson Lopp wrote: > It's quite clear from the PR discussion that there are a multitude of con= tentious issues at play with this proposal. > > Even aside from all of the technical concerns, the underlying implication= of using legal coercion to require miners and other network participants t= o comply with arbitrary legal and moral frameworks makes it a non-starter i= n my opinion. > > On Sun, Oct 26, 2025 at 3:43=E2=80=AFPM dathonohm via Bitcoin Development= Mailing List wrote: > >> Hi list - >> >> Due to Bitcoin Core v30 gaining in popularity, it has become necessary t= o move forward on [luke-jr's ML proposal](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/p= ull/2017) to temporarily limit arbitrary data at the consensus level, which= so far has 3 weeks with no objections: >> >> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/2017 >> >> The idea is to strongly re-affirm in consensus that bitcoin is money, no= t data storage. It is implemented as a temporary softfork that can activate= in one of two different ways: proactive, or reactive. >> >> After a year, the soft fork expires, giving us time to come up with a mo= re permanent solution. >> >> The timeline is a bit tight, but I think everyone has incentives to supp= ort a quick and orderly activation. >> >> Please feel free to leave a comment on the PR or reach out to me over em= ail with any feedback. >> >> There is much work still to do, so if you have some technical skills and= would like to join in the effort with dev/testing, please reach out as wel= l. >> >> Bitcoin is money. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Dathon Ohm >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoind= ev/AWiF9dIo9yjUF9RAs_NLwYdGK11BF8C8oEArR6Cys-rbcZ8_qs3RoJURqK3CqwCCWM_zwGFn= 5n3RECW_j5hGS01ntGzPLptqcOyOejunYsU%3D%40proton.me. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoinde= v/CADL_X_caKFvypdDa2k-Hhy1QCMJgnb6Rc8i0vBRW9%3Dyoq4h2ZA%40mail.gmail.com. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= eA2pBkwTzLHJAgRkYfvxwK13TW-wpY7r_pP1qpEauxuZuvNflEMj4sQvbtu4tgZ6Xdfu2BnxX_3= EjK4TRzKc0R5gt1eWXvXb6nH9NW2CeGs%3D%40proton.me. --b1=_fLCtLS6NgLh1aR4i9dmg7X9ThcJh4eicQZ6VX6i7AZA Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jameson -

You mention "technical concerns" but don= 't give any examples. Would you mind sharing one?

You also mention "the underlying implication of using legal coer= cion to require miners and other network participants to comply with arbitr= ary legal and moral frameworks", but I don't think the BIP implies this at = all.

The BIP merely highlights a legal = risk Bitcoin Core 30 has created for node operators for no good reason, and= attempts to eliminate it. No "coercion" is implied. You and anyone else wh= o are fine shouldering this risk are free to stay on the old data-friendly = chain. I doubt you will have much company, though.

Best,

=
Dathon

On Sunday, October 26th, 2025 at 2:49 PM, Jameson Lopp <jameson.= lopp@gmail.com> wrote:
It's quite clear from the PR discussion that t= here are a multitude of contentious issues at play with this proposal.
=
Even aside from all of the technical concerns, the underlyin= g implication of using legal coercion to require miners and other network p= articipants to comply with arbitrary legal and moral frameworks makes it a = non-starter in my opinion.

On Sun, Oct 26, 2025 = at 3:43=E2=80=AFPM dathonohm via Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Hi list -

Due to Bitcoin Core v30 gaining in popularity, it has= become necessary to move forward on luke-jr's ML proposal to temporarily limit = arbitrary data at the consensus level, which so far has 3 weeks with no obj= ections:

https://gi= thub.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/2017

The idea is to strongly re-affirm in consensus that bitcoin is = money, not data storage. It is implemented as a temporary softfork that can= activate in one of two different ways: proactive, or reactive.

After a year, the soft fork expires= , giving us time to come up with a more permanent solution.

The timeline is a bit tight, but I thin= k everyone has incentives to support a quick and orderly activation.=

Please feel free to leave a commen= t on the PR or reach out to me over email with any feedback.

There is much work still to do, so if you have some technica= l skills and would like to join in the effort with dev/testing, please reac= h out as well.

<= div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Bitcoin is money.

Sincerely,
<= span>
Da= thon Ohm

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