From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Thu, 26 Mar 2026 07:21:34 -0700 Received: from mail-oi1-f185.google.com ([209.85.167.185]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1w5laY-0005Z4-0b for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Thu, 26 Mar 2026 07:21:34 -0700 Received: by mail-oi1-f185.google.com with SMTP id 5614622812f47-467db806793sf1878804b6e.2 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2026 07:21:33 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1774534888; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=MDTYgspgPA5STMWmdeeVx66vcagPURiMCum/PcJwHYzu2IeO1t25t7wCxGs+c0Yfpa rJMphAWYN6Qg3JucGXkkr5W6DJo+NBstPoE0s7lnKDJUdFKVSyjvcjKiCjvDcJDyHZYP t63uSF5xoLmWyAhvYENa3tWTvmX0IANpnOeiHsyIumEVrevAYzVNYmFEi6J8vY6N3NA1 OcrUOlcgNfifYQK+8DxwfWPmlCkGi9xZT25HkeoQ1OhZXiRqMhmRMv0IuqJj6tmSpX8i x0ALCud1HaATiEkx5461y55/f2jU9sdZnecQK9NLhr2xEQ5bHOsp92KefIvEkdSGpnbN KDKA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:mime-version:user-agent:autocrypt :references:in-reply-to:date:to:from:subject:message-id:sender :dkim-signature; bh=9d7gsjSySTItnClTipAn1iMQg5oyOWPLSy7szC3VChk=; fh=F9nN3E7c9hc5XE7pmHCIycPU6seyNPRGoC/HUvEC5og=; b=PY1Riid8XB1z+jtIwNOWU4LXG5bCm//acCWiPV4/fg19wNB3RnBRezaBMZE8ohkF7g uJ5wnYSiIvH11/YLySVSpZhRE2gHOW9V/6iOXAwyWf98bbP0Fto6NhZ/Vqv0kBoT60gk w5NnvXO08KdRaqlNHYvlGlBD+azjkUTafhW5T9d005Tv/abvTZfEof1ZNQXDbVPFZmAi jj1PhlG9ctnPiT9oUsgjSevBMF/G4kQkuVHp7ivjVYsmX3/qrb3ZUftvWc9fqons4HaU x7v8WGZT4z07w1dBgGdvb/OgJPr0Vrq9dSitQHUUIEMRNb+KgQ6Us0IZ84Zl6HDXo4Ek ebGQ==; darn=gnusha.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@pythcoiner.dev header.s=dkim header.b=GSM6vRz6; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pyth@pythcoiner.dev designates 159.198.47.63 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pyth@pythcoiner.dev; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=pythcoiner.dev DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20251104; t=1774534888; x=1775139688; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:mime-version:user-agent:autocrypt:references :in-reply-to:date:to:from:subject:message-id:sender:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=9d7gsjSySTItnClTipAn1iMQg5oyOWPLSy7szC3VChk=; b=a96WseyWRX45PN6l4bbGTjWJu98/1md7HsGsht8GfByC9HnbCwNmsn6aCFdvDRPCCd WchaondSac+C2vNkJCCGZw69xMU+5f8buieeR/57/LEU/3I6R+8Or0v6zof2lctFNVfq 5MCgzWQ/D7xPHvNoYuFjBCn9gem4sbQfOqek5KABZ+uh6tkvjomGcMjOKeaophOLio/G eQ5gXPjlbZ1v4aRqhDgAhNvWSiXNQi38WPhFaepwFj0IasjnBcvT4XdW9PBuUD5gjO6Y FIZdlMDqLSsAImN+KENaavve27k0i3m01BsS4a1yxt9rIYE63zUUOMBj076LA68jjJ5B rM0g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1774534888; x=1775139688; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:mime-version:user-agent:autocrypt:references :in-reply-to:date:to:from:subject:message-id:x-beenthere :x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=9d7gsjSySTItnClTipAn1iMQg5oyOWPLSy7szC3VChk=; b=hIx/VXporjLI39adr7w2tU+G0xyN9fIHR06jolbcBdi15uAFXM7LR9ds7sjp7ViVeh M21kT0VlAc0IXQs1mVnlCr6/T+HJfzYbiNpdHqhsAU8NoCC5bkl/InvGABD3Q3YMB0rB G2gotf1UptMZLUq6zJiiUv5JP1kSc+xP87rohlo+IZzjt9Ym4wAIXBPv3S3BXnIArxao EbN3XsgjhBfYn6k0yyeiJWVlOcuCpoXVGy/+W0ILrEpaP4pMXDnzjJvq8fw18jB647Mu q7hTFSEflIFtfPnTbAGpaLsAwzNJAtZgglezijmpOlnKsLrTpzZHg6R98Cqd1tJKzGv1 rnAQ== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWHWnbXXVMAXurnNAKqg42cpbQrLVJxR5zaKmtRCVprIzXByOUMhyCBOIXztJlDNGgXq8S514XO3JtN@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy7Fu/NPir4fHslDP4LgUg96QQy12GMFOypXiE4ulvXNEyRhbSD nFKwgZrQZwHcSi1eA2KpCopOo5vAq2jF3v9/6Aa4AodWtLA1t9gq2e1x X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:220d:b0:463:93a5:a5bf with SMTP id 5614622812f47-46a5c595a85mr3599430b6e.8.1774534887707; Thu, 26 Mar 2026 07:21:27 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h="AYAyTiJ/MWptQxWLeh02Gw6DEMxtGsELKxdugToOXqYb+k2vvQ==" Received: by 2002:a05:6870:4153:b0:41c:686c:3243 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-41cc8f8c729ls397841fac.1.-pod-prod-09-us; Thu, 26 Mar 2026 07:21:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWUhX1sMCBMJzDfQOEeBa40SubXBIxvglHuQ3vK7/GMqAw0DnisEqHQQHgaipRxKK/8SXlNveLwmokH@googlegroups.com X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1190:b0:467:2be8:6687 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-46a5c700605mr3562387b6e.32.1774534881332; Thu, 26 Mar 2026 07:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:ae9:c202:0:b0:8cd:8cdc:b0a1 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-8d00fe47c57ms85a; Wed, 25 Mar 2026 17:15:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCXegfUmHwxkdtFjoV77lV95SOEcvCBfxc4ZUeVc1U+Qkcr+HXR8Pbc/D2ccrcNQ6PhpCLnuS0DggzBp@googlegroups.com X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:125c:b0:602:9977:a4f5 with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-6038732c983mr2364393137.27.1774484144900; Wed, 25 Mar 2026 17:15:44 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1774484144; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=A9fO7lnFsaI//1msQs2c0V90777hGqUMb6NxQcMKRhemqOZbhDGNk3rnE5bIQ0nM+v FTJAtPX1UxUTEiYB3mHyflSU3pUQUeG7Sur7LKZRsU7Ce76yGzTP+C/3la3lr4e0nVja kJtEwB6DdmspoALlY4x/ZZBULY8Qi4LwkGr7VjJ+AR9RXUXj14zA2cS8Y3yvW3MXMZF6 ko8HBeaGvhFKe2EjxjnlXi59OGQZnzZit0dqJxNk/bnt1DVRqOArSdxVkbhFXBVhJGvo Jjm/vfaIs3YmRge5uz91KGR9mgWanZzHEOMgcMAcQqaQ3LzkcqkaDQqNPrLO1z4dk8C5 zjzg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=mime-version:user-agent:autocrypt:references:in-reply-to:date:to :from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature; bh=Ua0e4wJi7AYS2cRihGC/08yYngzxl+fsbYbedI/mWZQ=; fh=5RJCvNtmyi1OQ6di8pHsFXDYPIxtPj4z3dagnGgAWRw=; b=XoVVibP0FGfE4VXYDPSymNt5tV57mK6xVgVlm3cZ87uvAG4CUsexy0QrV5LfuplWRa Ja094+63B0GMi0enfZPgMLCUQ0+dvdoSGfrcos2zGps1bpa22jyo+78l9JadkvDMsAgh kb8Yh/AvF3nWeC+430S5AYsPYrFlVEFDKtHOxjEEsD/k+Iuyl7j7MPdOiXy/6lnpFmcR QFful7G335DH/ntFkvD08p5hyVCKbRfjQNgYXGv7nMj8+x7EMbjzYb2KE5sZG82SmHet LomuzXMwnz8p2DHwZjOoe4YLV50bfUq76Eyb6iWW+NVBRra+G589DnhNrCBC09kjxorE synQ==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@pythcoiner.dev header.s=dkim header.b=GSM6vRz6; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pyth@pythcoiner.dev designates 159.198.47.63 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pyth@pythcoiner.dev; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=pythcoiner.dev Received: from mail.pythcoiner.dev ([159.198.47.63]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ada2fe7eead31-604d536e75csi38949137.3.2026.03.25.17.15.44 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Mar 2026 17:15:44 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pyth@pythcoiner.dev designates 159.198.47.63 as permitted sender) client-ip=159.198.47.63; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Mailerdaemon) with ESMTPSA id 79C2EAAF9A; Thu, 26 Mar 2026 00:15:40 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [BIP Draft] Blind Relay: Stateless Encrypted WebSocket Coordination for PSBTs From: pyth To: Sean Carlin , Bitcoin Development Mailing List Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2026 01:15:33 +0100 In-Reply-To: <3f1a1491-06e1-4453-9538-fa66bc432a06n@googlegroups.com> References: <3f1a1491-06e1-4453-9538-fa66bc432a06n@googlegroups.com> Autocrypt: addr=pyth@pythcoiner.dev; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=mDMEaV0fORYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAwXdvsa4Ngwo5e09hVzv48LMkEGOKmVwGXj3IPk4nQ fa0IXB5dGhjb2luZXIgPHB5dGhjb2luZXJAcHJvdG9uLm1lPoiWBBMWCgA+FiEEJ1tBU1i78lmLGV sorPfQsrY6PwoFAmldHzkCGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQrPfQsrY 6PwrWkQD/WIGjY0jWfp8E96AOqFRW8cL6DIvQWEw2k6Hkz6t1NFEA/37jt+o/eFIfzc6D/HqzJv5J /ru3634Q4lPbuyHZifUImQENBGPeZhkBCACy/b/DDJ+0VcFXxPyRS1arP+vKow9cIskZYj06mPa5p IVHFXKhfeYj+KEhwYGOXA3NeT69uOM9cbsyfISN8eGCVWLYsWIDIf/MNvTCiVq2HAxkvolUiiiG8z mOwTpY8HA/gH5RxEcmK9ex/cdsjvbilPBYFrHsNQ1Gz6WOmfNHkmxYCVnJ6FO6AY7b5XK1ImV9eDl LJIq/NWLy3vmjiyeWgShA+O6rK12C3IlPINck2YSTs/UjxdGQOCQscX71Oioua1ERzWDyR6zey7KP AeYUfZGXpgnowwnQHNhLotyH8+GEOD9M+2hW/I4Yo0652nZSWzeHN17OuWAk/ddd51nVABEBAAG0I VB5dGhjb2luZXIgPHB5dGhjb2luZXJAcHJvdG9uLm1lPokBTgQTAQoAOBYhBFv6QEPDRHm0tlQ6Qy kmzXZ/TcCDBQJj3mYZAhsBBQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJECkmzXZ/TcCDJ54H/35 PpgjmzE+Cl6jq9u8WAjreflqB4tzvbktdCvOkqWbGBtdkAKo54X9ZBQQkv2BqbjffUBvd+7EeUf+x nBr3qT//lPUYmXvkNoDpQxiamZ36XfGjFssK6ckEAYJUvSezwzkF6w+pkgOjuBgH0unr2nIfQwfSv fSDVFI0MFwYUMM0X2giVTEpfCKX8/B1u78FK8e794FBU1khHIxc/eh4lr0wOjj42TkIdaicTKvPDa XBs+AEONZ8KV0YX0PqBMBkaJNgGIWGufu6iSbcBo3NAn+n+osE8JTUTj1TlpD10ZSvzePQuEmpIC9 N3qgxuvh4ixPsFHcXiYCodMTix5EEfZo= Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-oRVeTOyyTV1Xh/THs1FF" User-Agent: Evolution 3.58.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Last-TLS-Session-Version: TLSv1.3 X-Original-Sender: pyth@pythcoiner.dev X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@pythcoiner.dev header.s=dkim header.b=GSM6vRz6; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pyth@pythcoiner.dev designates 159.198.47.63 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pyth@pythcoiner.dev; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=pythcoiner.dev Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --=-oRVeTOyyTV1Xh/THs1FF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Sean, this is interesting, but note that bitcoin core doesn't have dependencies for AES-GCM-256, while it have dependencies for CHACHA20- POLY1305. Best, Pyth On Wed, 2026-03-25 at 05:00 -0700, 'Sean Carlin' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'd like to propose a new BIP for real-time, trust-minimized > coordination of multi-signature PSBTs. > > The Problem > Coordinating N-of-M Bitcoin transactions currently forces users into > a binary choice: > - Manual out-of-band transfers (USB drives, secure messengers) that > preserve privacy but introduce high friction and error risk, or > - Stateful coordination servers that offer good UX but act as privacy > honeypots, logging metadata, signer relationships, and often storing > PSBTs on disk. > > The Proposal: Blind Relay > This BIP introduces a "Blind Relay" - an ephemeral, stateless, zero- > knowledge WebSocket relay. All payloads are encrypted client-side > with AES-GCM-256, with decryption keys held exclusively in client- > side URL fragments (never sent to the server). The relay operates > entirely in RAM with a strict 24-hour TTL and self-destructs upon > completion, providing real-time coordination without persistent > metadata or disk storage. > > A reference implementation has been running in production for three > months, successfully facilitating real multisig ceremonies. > > Links > - BIP Draft: > https://github.com/scarlin90/bip-stateless-psbt-coordination/blob/main/bip-draft.md > - Source Code: https://github.com/scarlin90/signingroom > - Live Client: https://signingroom.io > - Related Research Paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.17875 > > I look forward to your technical feedback - especially on the > specification, security model, edge cases, and any suggested > improvements. > > Best regards, > Sean Carlin > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/3f1a1491-06e1-4453-9538-fa66bc432a06n%40googlegroups.com > . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fede50f58f286763106ba143e7530990eb7d86c1.camel%40pythcoiner.dev. --=-oRVeTOyyTV1Xh/THs1FF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAABCgAdFiEEaUDzTAAmS01IhXXCwQSK7t8wO4gFAmnEeqUACgkQwQSK7t8w O4jj6wgAo1CPFtUnrddQ6WFNPmtmW+ON1e27DAYy/y1ErIrSSpPYL4vVLiH3USq5 lmSThpcIq+Qha7AeVNbhqNIA4M52GXN2e7EKQMK0cNjR7VhA5jTdMm/Zi7jlIkWs YDYpBB0TFdhPb1otOMrsBs/qz+EVORJOyBbL6mzM1bdf4DebEsw2vPuQta3FQd3T osKplt8it7XTRNVN5CLmcF7MhtkTbVVe3e/+yuz+biIwisWni/h/Xv0DO52jEWuX 9eStQWfysOHY08/ELkHqA5XW9UfV99FE3H7R4r2sdeYdzzGZwEraZYj3SBEa32kO sdY9bKCkl9IVIe1UHDug09YFUvUDHA== =0a8Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-oRVeTOyyTV1Xh/THs1FF--