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[185.70.43.16]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a640c23a62f3a-c1c32c21037si26493466b.3.2026.07.25.17.03.42 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 25 Jul 2026 17:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of darosior@protonmail.com designates 185.70.43.16 as permitted sender) client-ip=185.70.43.16; Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2026 00:03:36 +0000 To: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com From: "'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Testnet 4 difficulty/hashrate Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <3d57026c-7998-468b-ab72-b57cc2e971f2n@googlegroups.com> Feedback-ID: 7060259:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 42cf1017cd08382b38fb6f506b27a5492f4ee2bb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="b1=_x0YFQHbfHcAd23ylPb8k4Z3WzZvbUljKdAVYTSbQ" X-Original-Sender: darosior@protonmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@protonmail.com header.s=protonmail3 header.b=JOrvaG1u; spf=pass (google.com: domain of darosior@protonmail.com designates 185.70.43.16 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=darosior@protonmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=protonmail.com X-Original-From: Antoine Poinsot Reply-To: Antoine Poinsot Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --b1=_x0YFQHbfHcAd23ylPb8k4Z3WzZvbUljKdAVYTSbQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Forwarding my reply to the list, which my mobile client did not cc original= ly. -------- Original Message -------- On Saturday, 07/25/26 at 16:11 Antoine Poinsot wr= ote: > Hi Ali, > > The testnet5 BIP is now ready: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/maste= r/bip-0095.md . > > My understanding is the implementation was blocked on me submitting the B= IP 54 patchset to Bitcoin Core. This is now done, so nothing blocks a testn= et5 PR to Core anymore. I hope we can get it by Core v32, and a genesis blo= ck much earlier than that. > > Best regards, > Antoine > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Saturday, 07/25/26 at 14:30 Ali Sherief wrote: > >> This is having consequences in development workflows. Tests with bitcoin= -related libraries with this kind of block generation is now almost impossi= ble unless you mine your old blocks. For instance, my testnet4 faucet trans= actions have been sitting in the almost-empty mempool for around 30-60 minu= tes, never confirm, and then drop out. >> >> It is certainly making developing Bitcoin-related stuff much harder >> >> -Ali >> On Friday, June 5, 2026 at 1:28:01=E2=80=AFPM UTC+3 Anthony Towns wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Jun 05, 2026 at 07:35:27PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: >>>> compared with current mainnet difficulty of ~138T, or testnet4's >>>> current difficulty of ~1239M, >>> >>> If testnet4's current difficulty is D=3D1239M [0], and there were >>> no min-difficulty blocks, that would be one thing. But there are >>> min-difficulty blocks, and sufficient hashrate mining them with the clo= ck >>> set forward to saturate them. What's the actual hashrate for testnet4 >>> given a reported difficulty D? >>> >>> [0] https://mempool.space/testnet4/block/000000000000000359f805aea2a5f1= 8671bf98a1106d0cdbbfbe1f341f5e08dc?showDetails=3Dtrue&view=3Dactual#details >>> >>> Suppose the "correct" difficulty corresponding with actual hashrate wou= ld >>> be H. Then real difficulty blocks are found every (D/H * 10 minutes) >>> on average, and minimum time blocks fill up the rest of the retarget >>> period. So between blocks 135072 and 137087, I see 192 real-difficulty >>> blocks and 1824 min-difficulty blocks, suggesting that the real testnet= 4 >>> difficulty should be H=3D130M. >>> >>> The limit on not having D/H=3D2016 is that with 2016 min-difficulty blo= cks, >>> you'd have a retarget period taking up 4 weeks instead of 2 weeks. I th= ink >>> a real-difficulty block can reset up to 5 or 6 blocks of min-difficulty >>> time (any more than that would violate median time constraints on behal= f >>> of the real difficulty block, or too-far-in-future constraints on the >>> min-difficulty blocks), so I think that means that you want at least >>> 1 real block for every 10 or 12 min-difficulty blocks, so a 192:1824 >>> (1:9.5) ratio seems close to the max already. >>> >>> This also suggests ~90% of testnet4 blocks are being confirmed via >>> competition in network propagation with only ~10% confirmed via >>> PoW/hashrate competition. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> aj >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoind= ev/3d57026c-7998-468b-ab72-b57cc2e971f2n%40googlegroups.com. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= ovX9nrRj5sJsB_rEKqZMdTd89_saTF9h9IVuFelR-e8TPIilrUD9NJFF-FgJSUWkHkck5eZWlmj= 2JqtNVaIMcQRnbXXsxEaxb7lboM2_rpQ%3D%40protonmail.com. --b1=_x0YFQHbfHcAd23ylPb8k4Z3WzZvbUljKdAVYTSbQ Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Forwarding my reply to the list, which my mobile c= lient did not cc originally.


-------= - Original Message --------
On Saturday, 07/25/26 at 16:11 Antoine Poins= ot <darosior@protonmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ali,

The testnet5 BIP is now ready: htt= ps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0095.md .

=
My understanding is the implementation was blocked on me submitti= ng the BIP 54 patchset to Bitcoin Core. This is now done, so nothing blocks= a testnet5 PR to Core anymore. I hope we can get it by Core v32, and a gen= esis block much earlier than that.

Best regards,
Antoi= ne



-------- Original Messa= ge --------
On Saturday, 07/25/26 at 14:30 Ali Sherief <ali@notatethe= r.com> wrote:
This is having c= onsequences in development workflows. Tests with bitcoin-related libraries = with this kind of block generation is now almost impossible unless you mine= your old blocks. For instance, my testnet4 faucet transactions have been s= itting in the almost-empty mempool for around 30-60 minutes, never confirm,= and then drop out.

It is certainly making developing Bi= tcoin-related stuff much harder

-Ali

=
On Friday= , June 5, 2026 at 1:28:01=E2=80=AFPM UTC+3 Anthony Towns wrote:
On Fri, Jun 05, 2026 at 07:35:27PM +1000,= Anthony Towns wrote:
> compared with current mainnet difficulty of ~138T, or testnet4's
> current difficulty of ~1239M,

If testnet4's current difficulty is D=3D1239M [0], and there were
no min-difficulty blocks, that would be one thing. But there are
min-difficulty blocks, and sufficient hashrate mining them with the clo= ck
set forward to saturate them. What's the actual hashrate for testnet4
given a reported difficulty D?

[0] https://mempool.spa= ce/testnet4/block/000000000000000359f805aea2a5f18671bf98a1106d0cdbbfbe1f341= f5e08dc?showDetails=3Dtrue&view=3Dactual#details

Suppose the "correct" difficulty corresponding with actual hashrate wou= ld
be H. Then real difficulty blocks are found every (D/H * 10 minutes)
on average, and minimum time blocks fill up the rest of the retarget
period. So between blocks 135072 and 137087, I see 192 real-difficulty
blocks and 1824 min-difficulty blocks, suggesting that the real testnet= 4
difficulty should be H=3D130M.

The limit on not having D/H=3D2016 is that with 2016 min-difficulty blo= cks,
you'd have a retarget period taking up 4 weeks instead of 2 weeks. I th= ink
a real-difficulty block can reset up to 5 or 6 blocks of min-difficulty
time (any more than that would violate median time constraints on behal= f
of the real difficulty block, or too-far-in-future constraints on the
min-difficulty blocks), so I think that means that you want at least
1 real block for every 10 or 12 min-difficulty blocks, so a 192:1824
(1:9.5) ratio seems close to the max already.

This also suggests ~90% of testnet4 blocks are being confirmed via
competition in network propagation with only ~10% confirmed via
PoW/hashrate competition.

Cheers,
aj

--
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