Stop translating command-line option help? #10962

issue laanwj openend this issue on July 31, 2017
  1. laanwj commented at 2:51 pm on July 31, 2017: member

    A curious property of the current client is that command-line help (--help) will be translated when doing bitcoin-qt --help but not for bitcoind --help. The reason for this is that bitcoind doesn’t contain the translations.

    This makes it a waste of translator time. It could be achieved by linking gettext and converting the translations (see issue #6092). However I’m not sure it’s worth it.

    Many options are extremely technical, and refer internals, making it difficult to translate usefully. This came up in discussion of e.g. #10949. If a message is not understood by translators (which are typically end-users, not developers) they’ll either translate it literally, making it harder to understand instead of easier, with the added drawback of the user no longer being able to google it.

  2. laanwj added the label Docs and Output on Jul 31, 2017
  3. laanwj added this to the milestone 0.16.0 on Jul 31, 2017
  4. MarcoFalke commented at 8:32 pm on July 31, 2017: member

    I think that the user base is different for bitcoind and bitcoin-qt. Users of the daemon interact through json and are likely familiar with technical English. Though, gui users (often windows users) are not familiar with the command line and some of them might have difficulties understanding the technical English.

    The solution would be to make the translatable strings as easy to understand as possible. In case this is not possible and it takes several lines to explain a single command-line option, it is probably best to not expose it to the average user anyway.

    On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Wladimir J. van der Laan < notifications@github.com> wrote:

    A curious property of the current client is that command-line help (–help) will be translated when doing bitcoin-qt –help but not for bitcoind –help. The reason for this is that bitcoind doesn’t contain the translations.

    This makes it a waste of translator time. It could be achieved by linking gettext and converting the translations (see issue #6092 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/6092). However I’m not sure it’s worth it.

    Many options are extremely technical, and refer internals, making it extremely difficult to translate usefully. This came up in discussion of e.g. #10949 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10949. If a message is not understood by translators they’ll either translate it literally, making it harder to understand instead of easier, with the added drawback of the user no longer being able to google it.

    — You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10962, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AGGmv8ttw7O9sPvizsncJT1VRE_MDhhBks5sTeoxgaJpZM4OogGN .

  5. laanwj commented at 7:26 am on August 1, 2017: member

    The problem is that translators usually don’t succeed in translating heavily technical English into anything sensible in another language. This makes the result harder, not easier to understand - not only technical but badly translated too.

    I think we’re failing with regard to not exposing those things to end users. As long as you consider the command line options at least. The GUI messages themselves are usually ok.

    This is why I’d prefer (and I’m sure many translators want too) to remove the translation bit from command line options.

    The other option would be to be much more strict about option help, but honestly I don’t see that happening - it has shown to be impossible to word these non-technically.

    (That discardfee message was reworded and I immediately got new complaints about it! So I see this as only option now)

    On Jul 31, 2017 22:32, “MarcoFalke” notifications@github.com wrote:

    I think that the user base is different for bitcoind and bitcoin-qt. Users of the daemon interact through json and are likely familiar with technical English. Though, gui users (often windows users) are not familiar with the command line and some of them might have difficulties understanding the technical English.

    The solution would be to make the translatable strings as easy to understand as possible. In case this is not possible and it takes several lines to explain a single command-line option, it is probably best to not expose it to the average user anyway.

    On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Wladimir J. van der Laan < notifications@github.com> wrote:

    A curious property of the current client is that command-line help (–help) will be translated when doing bitcoin-qt –help but not for bitcoind –help. The reason for this is that bitcoind doesn’t contain the translations.

    This makes it a waste of translator time. It could be achieved by linking gettext and converting the translations (see issue #6092 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/6092). However I’m not sure it’s worth it.

    Many options are extremely technical, and refer internals, making it extremely difficult to translate usefully. This came up in discussion of e.g. #10949 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10949. If a message is not understood by translators they’ll either translate it literally, making it harder to understand instead of easier, with the added drawback of the user no longer being able to google it.

    — You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10962, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ AGGmv8ttw7O9sPvizsncJT1VRE_MDhhBks5sTeoxgaJpZM4OogGN> .

    — You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10962#issuecomment-319187656, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAHutqJlR0tfnQoCM41A1U7gyDHCaAcfks5sTjnVgaJpZM4OogGN .

  6. jnewbery commented at 9:13 pm on September 1, 2017: member
    Concept ACK (but I’m a native English speaker, so my opinion on this is less relevant). Perhaps try to solicit feedback from more non-native English speaking users and contributors.
  7. laanwj removed this from the milestone 0.16.0 on Jan 11, 2018
  8. MarcoFalke added the label GUI on May 21, 2018
  9. MarcoFalke added this to the milestone 0.17.0 on May 21, 2018
  10. laanwj commented at 3:33 pm on May 29, 2018: member
    This issue has been open for almost a year and no one seems to be strongly against it. I’ll open a PR.
  11. laanwj referenced this in commit c7385a5ef3 on May 29, 2018
  12. laanwj commented at 4:54 pm on May 29, 2018: member
    See #13341
  13. laanwj referenced this in commit 3d4fa83587 on May 30, 2018
  14. MarcoFalke referenced this in commit 25d2df2aa9 on May 30, 2018
  15. meshcollider commented at 9:05 pm on June 13, 2018: contributor
    I believe this can be closed now after the merge of #13341
  16. meshcollider closed this on Jun 13, 2018
  17. stamhe referenced this in commit 32fbfda685 on Jun 27, 2018
  18. HashUnlimited referenced this in commit 14ceb37e2a on Sep 10, 2018
  19. joemphilips referenced this in commit 616b83f326 on Nov 9, 2018
  20. UdjinM6 referenced this in commit d78bf474af on Mar 19, 2021
  21. UdjinM6 referenced this in commit b27554ba3f on Mar 19, 2021
  22. MarcoFalke locked this on Sep 8, 2021


laanwj MarcoFalke jnewbery meshcollider

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