Snoei: a.k.a. how to translate technical jargon #11875

issue Sjors opened this issue on December 12, 2017
  1. Sjors commented at 11:41 AM on December 12, 2017: member

    This is hilarious as it sounds like gardening advice. <img width="432" alt="snoei" src="https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/10217/33882565-cd7c1450-df38-11e7-9261-64c6fd5f3ee0.png">

    I suggest sticking to the English technical terms, appending a translation in brackets where needed. For custom settings like prune=, it's safe to assume the user knows the English word.

  2. fanquake commented at 11:42 AM on December 12, 2017: member

    Please report translation issues upstream to Transifex.

  3. Sjors commented at 11:57 AM on December 12, 2017: member

    Just joined the Transifex team. I'll flag this specific issue there. I'm getting a "There was an error connecting to server." when trying to view the strings, so will try that again later.

    However, I'd also like to change the translation strings policy to reflect this, if people think that's a good idea.

    I see there's no review for the past few Dutch releases: <img width="991" alt="schermafbeelding 2017-12-12 om 12 49 06" src="https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/10217/33883122-de858694-df3a-11e7-8981-67dba3a26be9.png">

    We should consider not merging unreviewed translations. Not sure what the fallback behavior should be; use the previous reviewed translation if a string is unchanged, fall back to English if a string has changed but the translation is unreviewed?

  4. jonasschnelli commented at 6:46 PM on December 12, 2017: contributor

    Agree with @Sjors that we should be more careful with what translations we support (fallback to English may be better for some translations). I guess there is a script somewhere maybe it could be extended to only accept translations over a certain threshold in completion and only when there are enough reviews?

  5. sipa commented at 6:50 PM on December 12, 2017: member

    There is a meta issue here that perhaps is more appropriate to discuss here.

    How do we translate jargon? The answer is perhaps language and culturally dependent. I can't imagine that anyone is served by seeing terms like "snoei" and "blokketen" (literal translation of blockchain).

  6. jonasschnelli commented at 6:54 PM on December 12, 2017: contributor

    Maybe we should define a list of words that should not be translated? The same problem appears in German, where words like "wallet", "blockchain" and even "HD" (for hd wallet) is translated which makes little sense to me.

  7. Sjors renamed this:
    Snoei: aka confusing translation for prune related error
    Snoei: a.k.a. how to translate technical jargon
    on Dec 12, 2017
  8. Sjors commented at 8:09 PM on December 12, 2017: member

    One approach that has worked for me in the past when dealing with application translations, is to have translator instructions. There should be universal instructions and language specific instructions. That can probably go on one page, e.g. on the docs repo, with a link from Transifex, so that translators see it.

    We can define a list at @jonasschnelli suggested and add that to the universal instructions, but the list should merely be a guideline. For instance, Mandarin does have its own word for Bitcoin.

    This doc is a good basis, but it shouldn't have developer specific stuff in it.

  9. MarcoFalke commented at 1:10 AM on December 13, 2017: member

    A workaround, to forbid translating a specific piece of text, is to exclude it from the translation string.

    That makes sense for command line args, such as -prune, but might drain the context for general words such as "wallet". Thus, make translations harder.

    I think there is a Glossary on transifex, where a noun and its translation can be put.

    screenshot from 2017-12-12 20-09-17

  10. fanquake added the label Brainstorming on Dec 13, 2017
  11. fanquake added the label GUI on Dec 13, 2017
  12. Sjors commented at 8:59 AM on December 13, 2017: member

    Using the glossary feature sounds like the better approach, as long as reviewers also check it. Transifex shows the glossary for any matching words of the phrase the translator is working on, so that's quite nice.

    It's already possible to only download reviewed translations:

    <img width="382" alt="schermafbeelding 2017-12-13 om 09 14 56" src="https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/10217/33928503-65bfaf3a-dfe6-11e7-935e-4547c840c480.png">

    The word "snoei" does not appear in the reviewed file, only in the unreviewed file.

    Perhaps the automated script can be modified to use the reviewed file instead? This might cause a lot of strings to get dropped, so we should try to get most languages reviewed before making such a change.

  13. laanwj commented at 9:20 AM on December 13, 2017: member

    Of foremost importance is that we don't flag overly technical messages for translation in the first place. No one is served by that. This is also why I opened #10962.

    Perhaps the automated script can be modified to use the reviewed file instead? This might cause a lot of strings to get dropped, so we should try to get most languages reviewed before making such a change.

    FWIW the script is here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/devtools/update-translations.py . What it does is tx pull -f -a. Do you know how to make it fetch only reviewed translations?

  14. Sjors commented at 7:20 PM on December 13, 2017: member

    I'll take a look at the script.

    Also link to recent IRC discussion.

    The error message I was getting appears to have been a permission issue in disguise.

  15. Sjors commented at 8:49 PM on December 13, 2017: member

    tx pull -f -a --mode=reviewedshould do the trick.

    In a new directory I did:

    tx set --auto-remote https://www.transifex.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/qt-translation-015x
    tx pull -f -l nl
    

    This will have "snoei" in it.

    Then:

    tx pull -f -l nl --mode=reviewed
    

    This won't have "snoei" in it. In fact, it will have no translations because none of the phrases have been reviewed in Transifex.

    If you use -l de you'll get the German translations that have been reviewed, e.g. compare "Transaction amounts must not be negative" with and without --reviewed.

    When I change the update-translations.py script, all the unreviewed translation are removed as expected.

    subprocess.call([TX, 'pull', '-f', '-a', '--mode=reviewed'])
    

    If you use git diff while this script is working, you'll see it set <translation type="unfinished"/> at all the appropriate places. Once the script is done, it cleaned all of that up, so it ends up deleting most of the translation files, leaving only some German, French and ku_IQ behind, because those languages got reviewed.

    This won't work if you call it for just a single language, just FYI:

    subprocess.call([TX, 'pull', '-f', '--mode=reviewed', '-l de'])
    

    src/qt/de.ts doesn't change when I do that.

  16. Sjors commented at 8:57 PM on December 13, 2017: member

    Also every language has a team that people can join. It's just that the join button might be broken, in which case support will add you if you contact them.

  17. Sjors commented at 9:10 PM on December 13, 2017: member

    Once you figure out your way through the SAAS Kafka, Transifex is pretty powerful.

    For example it will warn you if you don't use the translation suggested in the glossary. E.g. when I use "wallet"* instead of "portefuille":

    <img width="712" alt="schermafbeelding 2017-12-13 om 22 06 25" src="https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/10217/33962466-ec115e9c-e051-11e7-93ab-012b13839d5e.png">

    <img width="401" alt="schermafbeelding 2017-12-13 om 22 06 38" src="https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/10217/33962469-ed8a02f6-e051-11e7-82ca-28bcd42f5387.png">

    • = I found several Dutch state television news articles that use the English term "wallet", but I only changed it here to illustrate the feature.
  18. Sjors commented at 9:16 PM on December 13, 2017: member

    I got rid of all "snoei" occurrences FWIW. :-)

  19. Sjors commented at 1:07 PM on February 19, 2019: member

    Not much happening here. Closing for now.

  20. Sjors closed this on Feb 19, 2019

  21. DrahtBot locked this on Dec 16, 2021

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